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'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

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Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#61
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Every other force besides gravity is polarised, so why not also gravity?" Gravity is mediated by a spin-2 gauge boson, the graviton, whereas the other known fundamental forces are mediated by vector (spin-1) bosons. There is an exercise in Peskin & Schroeder (I believe) working out the lack of a gravitation "repulsion" resulting from this difference. That being said, I think this kind of phenomenology is excellent a…

> raises lots of interesting questions Exactly. What I liked about MOND was that it basically amounted to "we don't know." The populist notion that dark matter is conclusively matter, and dark energy is energy seems a bold claim for such a young species. Crazy theories like non-universal constants are probably crazy, but they do explore unconventional lines of thought. One of those, most likely an unknown unknown, ma…

> that has been falsified more than once

What has been falsified more than once?

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#62

I'm curious about the idea of "allow[ing] negative masses to not only exist, but to be created continuously." Given the law (in the scientific sense) that matter/energy cannot be created or destroyed, on a scale of 1 to FTL travel, how crazy is this idea?

Yup, that part seemed like a stretch to me too. Besides which, it doesn't seem to address any of the conflicts between QM and GR, so I'm not seeing it as a terribly interesting path. Not saying it's wrong, but it's not where I'd put my money.

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#63

I'm confused. From the article: "This is explained by the Hubble-Lemaître Law, the observation that more distant galaxies are moving away at a faster rate." If we observe an accelerating universe how can be that galaxies in the past move away at a faster rate?

Because more and more negative mass fills in the space left behind by the expansion creating further expansion?

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#64
post #8

Paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.07962.pdf Not a physicist, but my summary of the author's point would be: If you allow for matter with a negative mass and plug it into a n-body simulation. You seem to get what looks like dark matter from first principles. Namely, a halo of non interacting matter around galaxies in just the right "non-cuspy" shape. Their conclusion is that this is worth considering, as almost all ma…

Also not a physicist.

AFIAIK the "dark matter & energy might be negtive mass" idea has popped up before but has been dismissed because our current observations show that it's gravitational effect isn't lessened by the expansion of the universe.

He addresses this in section 2.3.1 by adding a "creation term" to balance universe expansion with the creation of new negative mass, but that just seems like a dirty hack to me.

Albeit, the cosmological constant was a dirty hack too, so that doesn't really necessarily discount anything.

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#65
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given there have been no detections of individual gravitons, saying it's a spin-2 gauge boson is speculation at best (though it might be what the model predicts)

If it weren't, general relativity would be wrong as well and we know that (in its domain of applicability) it's a highly accurate model. GR models gravity as fluctuations in the metric tensor of spacetime, which is a symmetric rank-2 tensor. This is all you need to know to conclude that a graviton (a quantize fluctation of that tensor) must be spin-2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graviton mentions "[I]t can be shown…

Yes but while we don't have the unification between QM and GR we don't have the full picture.

We know what fits GM, but we don't know if it's the only solution.

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#66
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they pretty sure it’s different than antimatter? Last I heard we weren’t sure if it has negative gravity or not.

If it's antimatter why isn't it coalesced into antigalaxies that we would be able to see visibly, and is instead diffused as a dark fluid?

It is, we can't see them because they emit dark energy "light". /s

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#67
If anyone is interested in dark matter and dark energy I recommend this book: https://www.amazon.com/Our-Mathematical-Universe-Ultimate-Re...

Written by this guy http://web.mit.edu/physics/people/faculty/tegmark_max.html is does a fantastic job of going from really simple concepts/experiments to blowing your mind.

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#68
I invite you to plug in negative mass to Einstein's famous equation. Negative mass is what is required for faster-than-light travel.

What is needed is a craft that has a normal, positive mass shell that contains and holds an equivalent amount of negative mass, thereby giving the entire craft a net mass of zero, allowing unlimited acceleration.

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#69
post #35
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> raises lots of interesting questions Exactly. What I liked about MOND was that it basically amounted to "we don't know." The populist notion that dark matter is conclusively matter, and dark energy is energy seems a bold claim for such a young species. Crazy theories like non-universal constants are probably crazy, but they do explore unconventional lines of thought. One of those, most likely an unknown unknown, ma…

“What’s most impressive is that the predictions of dark matter were first made in the 1970s and 1980s, and were observationally confirmed later. This is not a case of tweaking the model to fit the data; this is a case of the best kind of science you hope for: where you make predictions, make the observations, and what you see validates and confirms the predictions you had made. And yet, even 35 years later, there are…

"Every genuine test of a theory is an attempt to falsify it, or to refute it. Testability is falsifiability; but there are degrees of testability: some theories are more testable, more exposed to refutation, than others; they take, as it were, greater risks."

- Karl Popper

Re: 'Dark fluid' with negative mass could dominate the universe

#70
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given there have been no detections of individual gravitons, saying it's a spin-2 gauge boson is speculation at best (though it might be what the model predicts)

If it weren't, general relativity would be wrong as well and we know that (in its domain of applicability) it's a highly accurate model. GR models gravity as fluctuations in the metric tensor of spacetime, which is a symmetric rank-2 tensor. This is all you need to know to conclude that a graviton (a quantize fluctation of that tensor) must be spin-2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graviton mentions "[I]t can be shown…

Well, in classical GR, which is still our best and most accurate theory of gravity, gravity is only an apparent force and thus isn't (or can't be) mediated by anything. Stating as fact that a graviton must exist or otherwise GR "would be wrong" is a bit of stretch IMHO. The graviton is plausible speculation, backed by some theoretical justifications, but nothing more yet.
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