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Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

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Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#111
post #105

I imagine improvements to the key fob could be made that would require a mechanical coupling with the car in order to start it. That would circumvent this attack.

That defeats the purpose of the fob. Be easier to put an on/off switch on the fob so you can turn it off at night.

I think he was making a joke about regular car keys

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#112
post #104

Tesla recently added a good workaround. They added a setting where you can turn auto unlock or auto start off, which blocks this remote access hack. You have to use your key fob button at least once, say to unlock the car and then it just works wirelessly without further action. My car is unlocked at night but in my garage. If they got in my garage somehow and had the signal repeater they couldn't drive off unless I…

A motion sensor in the remote would also work and maintain the convenience.

Unless it was in my pocket and I was walking around with it, which I do every day.

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#113
post #82

This happened to a family member of mine, here in Toronto. Lost their gorgeous M5. Their kid normally wakes up in the middle of the night, except this time, he freaked right out like he was scared. They were wondering what was going on with him, when one of the parents heard the M5 turn on (it's pretty distinct). "That's my car!" His wife said, "Naw, you're crazy, no way." Sure enough, enough, key fob attack and thef…

What strange is, I can see unlocking the car and even starting it with this attack -- but do the cars not continually (or at least every minute or two) revalidate the presence of the key? Once they got very far away from the house, the car should shut off. Or so I would think.

> but do the cars not continually (or at least every minute or two) revalidate the presence of the key?

Mine will beep for a bit if I leave the car with the key. But the vehicle also works when the fob's battery is depleted (it has an RFID tag and an embedded physical key for the door). Having the car randomly shut off based on something so potentially flakey seems like a worse idea.

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#114
post #107

The article recommends putting your fob upstairs or as far away as possible, but that seems like false security. What's considered a safe distance? How far away can they pick up the signal?

Just put them in a Faraday cage, problem solved.

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#116
post #105

I imagine improvements to the key fob could be made that would require a mechanical coupling with the car in order to start it. That would circumvent this attack.

I'm not sure if this is a joke about old keys being better, but I'd argue you could have the benefits of new keys and old keys combined if you just made it so that new keys have to be inserted into some compartment inside of cars, where they are authenticated by those cars. You can imagine a fob with a USB that has a different authentication code than the wireless one it sends out, and unless the USB is plugged into the car, you can only start the car up but you can't drive it.

In addition, you can make it so that the car doesn't unlock due to proximity with the fob, but rather, it only unlocks if you push the unlock button on the fob.

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#117
post #107

The article recommends putting your fob upstairs or as far away as possible, but that seems like false security. What's considered a safe distance? How far away can they pick up the signal?

They make Faraday bags (many options) for this purpose. That is where you should store your fob.

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#118
post #82

This happened to a family member of mine, here in Toronto. Lost their gorgeous M5. Their kid normally wakes up in the middle of the night, except this time, he freaked right out like he was scared. They were wondering what was going on with him, when one of the parents heard the M5 turn on (it's pretty distinct). "That's my car!" His wife said, "Naw, you're crazy, no way." Sure enough, enough, key fob attack and thef…

What strange is, I can see unlocking the car and even starting it with this attack -- but do the cars not continually (or at least every minute or two) revalidate the presence of the key? Once they got very far away from the house, the car should shut off. Or so I would think.

In the article, the first car mentioned the car was found in a parking lot, contents emptied. If they wanted to take it to a chop shop, easy enough to take it far enough to put on a flatbed.

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#119

I'm confused. Are there cars where the fob can automatically start the car, without any button presses, just from proximity? How did they not realize that was a bad idea?

The thief just gets in the car and presses the button using the boosted key fob signal.

Re: Thieves boosting signal from key fobs inside homes to steal vehicles

#120
post #107

The article recommends putting your fob upstairs or as far away as possible, but that seems like false security. What's considered a safe distance? How far away can they pick up the signal?

Measure how far away your car unlocks, then keep the keys as far from external walls as that.

But to be honest it’s easier to keep them in a metal box that shuts properly. That’s what i do (although my fob still needs interaction, so i should be a bit safer, in theory).

Also consider that keyless cars actually still have a way to enter, be it physical or remote: garage-supplied universal keys and software. VWs for example have an old-school keyhole under a thin plastic bit on the door, so that garages can access it when you lose the fob.

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