Facebook's seized files published by MPs • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#51

Post by dyeje » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:33 PM UTC

btown wrote: post #22

paganel wrote: post #7

> Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat > there was evidence that Facebook's refusal to share data with some apps caused them to fail Stuff like this should trigger the EU Commissioner for Competition to withdraw the aut…

A world in which companies are not allowed to selectively withhold proprietary data from some competitors, and form partnerships with others, is a world that suboptimally promotes innovation and economic growth.

I'm not advocating for anything here, but isn't hurting innovation and economic growth exactly what FB is doing by snuffing out promising products based on analytics?

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#52

Post by sbhn » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:35 PM UTC

breischl wrote: post #39

sbhn wrote: post #28

Thx for link. Everytime i read the word ‘whitelist’, i think, havn’t they caught up with the times, thats racist, whitelist. Why does white suggest good?

I've wondered that too. My inexpert, unresearched guess is that people are scared of darkness, because we don't see too well. Hence black is a scary/bad color, and blacklists are the things to avoid. Brightness is good - you can see, it's usually warm, etc. Hence whitelist. But like I said, total off-the-cuff guess, take it for what it's worth.

Good response, i thought it was left over terminology from segregation times. You may be right

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#53

Post by dao- » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:36 PM UTC

btown wrote: post #22

paganel wrote: post #7

> Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat > there was evidence that Facebook's refusal to share data with some apps caused them to fail Stuff like this should trigger the EU Commissioner for Competition to withdraw the aut…

A world in which companies are not allowed to selectively withhold proprietary data from some competitors, and form partnerships with others, is a world that suboptimally promotes innovation and economic growth.

This my be true as a rule of thumb. Different rules apply to monopolies (in most developed countries anyway), as different dynamics come into play and hinder innovation.

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#54

Post by Jyaif » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:37 PM UTC

btown wrote: post #22

paganel wrote: post #7

> Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat > there was evidence that Facebook's refusal to share data with some apps caused them to fail Stuff like this should trigger the EU Commissioner for Competition to withdraw the aut…

A world in which companies are not allowed to selectively withhold proprietary data from some competitors, and form partnerships with others, is a world that suboptimally promotes innovation and economic growth.

That's a rehash of the argument against the existence of proprietary tech (and patents).

It also has the same limitations: If there's no competitive advantage to having proprietary data, then what's the point of developing the tech and services to try and obtain it?

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#55

Post by empath75 » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:37 PM UTC

breischl wrote: post #29

paganel wrote: post #7

> Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat > there was evidence that Facebook's refusal to share data with some apps caused them to fail Stuff like this should trigger the EU Commissioner for Competition to withdraw the aut…

I have no particular love for FB or what they've done with data, but these I don't understand why either of those points is particularly controversial or even unusual. > Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat Checking out…

> Checking out your competition is pretty standard among all businesses, as is buying out the ones you can't beat.

To be clear-- they marketed Onava as a VPN service to protect your personal data from spying and then they spied on your personal data to figure out what products you were using.

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#56

Post by throwaway572091 » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/cultu...

Exhibit 79 – linking data access spending on advertising at Facebook

Email from Konstantinos Papamiltidas [FB] to Ime Archibong [FB]

18 September 2013 – 10.06am From email about slides prepared for talk to DevOps at 11am on 19 September 2013

'Key points: 1/ Find out what other apps like Refresh are out that we don't want to share data with and figure out if they spend on NEKO. Communicate in one-go to all apps that don't spend that those permission will be revoked. Communicate to the rest that they need to spend on NEKO $250k a year to maintain access to the data.'

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#57

Post by throwaway572091 » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/cultu...

Exhibit 170 – Mark Zuckerberg discussing linking data to revenue

Mark Zuckerberg email – dated 7 October 2012

'I've been thinking about platform business model a lot this weekend…if we make it so devs can generate revenue for us in different ways, then it makes it more acceptable for us to charge them quite a bit more for using platform. The basic idea is that any other revenue you generate for us earns you a credit towards whatever fees you own us for using plaform. For most developers this would probably cover cost completely. So instead of every paying us directly, they'd just use our payments or ads products. A basic model could be:

Login with Facebook is always free Pushing content to Facebook is always free Reading anything, including friends, costs a lot of money. Perhaps on the order of $0.10/user each year.

For the money that you owe, you can cover it in any of the following ways:

Buys ads from us in neko or another system Run our ads in your app or website (canvas apps already do this) Use our payments Sell your items in our Karma store.

Or if the revenue we get from those doesn't add up to more that the fees you owe us, then you just pay us the fee directly.'

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#58

Post by dao- » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:38 PM UTC

breischl wrote: post #29

paganel wrote: post #7

> Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat > there was evidence that Facebook's refusal to share data with some apps caused them to fail Stuff like this should trigger the EU Commissioner for Competition to withdraw the aut…

I have no particular love for FB or what they've done with data, but these I don't understand why either of those points is particularly controversial or even unusual. > Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat Checking out…

> So it's bad if they do share data, but also bad if they don't?

Yeah. I'm guessing they have a bad business model.

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#59

Post by empath75 » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

danarmak wrote: post #14

paganel wrote: post #7

> Facebook used data provided by the Israeli analytics firm Onavo to determine which other mobile apps were being downloaded and used by the public. It then used this knowledge to decide which apps to acquire or otherwise treat as a threat > there was evidence that Facebook's refusal to share data with some apps caused them to fail Stuff like this should trigger the EU Commissioner for Competition to withdraw the aut…

How do you force a split when one part (Whatsapp) may not have enough revenue to sustain itself?

Why should we support exploitative business models?

Re: Facebook's seized files published by MPs

#60

Post by ddalex » Wed, Dec 05, 2018, 3:39 PM UTC

dwighttk wrote: post #49

isostatic wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A fine (no matter how big) $200 billion, and a review in 12 months time? That's 5 years revenue. $100 per user, sounds reasonable. Facebook can put in an easy "claim your $100" button on their site. Would that just be a "cost of doing business"?

would you take that money?

yes, sure. I'm not a FB shareholder. I'll take the 100, and the GDPR them to make them forget that I ever took the money.