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Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

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Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#281

Post by dahfizz »

pc86 wrote: post #239
darepublic wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess on paper going without sleep gives you some kind of competitive advantage? A company that believes otherwise could bet on giving their workers more sleep and they should gain an advantage by doing so.

Most companies (not startups) don't have their employees work much more than 40 hours. Lack of sleep is very rarely an issue with your employer.

Even with an 8 hour day plus a long commute, there are at least 14-15 hours a day left for you. If you aren't finding time in there to sleep, that's on you.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#282

Post by gerbilly »

jac241 wrote: post #278
gerbilly wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> during pre-med training: with on-call work hours up to 120 hours a week. Can someone please tell me why they still put medical students through this institutional hazing?

In medical school, 120 hour weeks really only exist for 4th year med students who are on sub-internships in surgical specialties like neurosurgery, orthopedic surgery, general surgery, etc. Students in those fields do 3 or so month long sub-i's at hospitals they want to do residency at. They basically function as month long interviews for those programs, and are also used to get letters of recommendation from promine…

So they are being taken advantage of then.

Sounds like they should just legislate away the "Residency match system."

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#283

Post by BigChiefSmokem »

dahfizz wrote: post #279
ExBritNStuff wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Elementary school comment rings so true. We have to get my seven year old up at 6:15 to get to school at 7:30. That's if we take him, if he caught the bus he would have to be AT the stop by 6:15. Every day is a battle against exhaustion. On the days that school is delayed due to weather and he can get up naturally at maybe 7:30, he is so much better. He feels better, his attitude is more positive, and he does so…

Why does the school bus pick him up more than an hour before school starts? That seems ridiculous.

To pick up the other kids on a long route.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#284

Post by rasputin243 »

dahfizz wrote: post #279
ExBritNStuff wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Elementary school comment rings so true. We have to get my seven year old up at 6:15 to get to school at 7:30. That's if we take him, if he caught the bus he would have to be AT the stop by 6:15. Every day is a battle against exhaustion. On the days that school is delayed due to weather and he can get up naturally at maybe 7:30, he is so much better. He feels better, his attitude is more positive, and he does so…

Why does the school bus pick him up more than an hour before school starts? That seems ridiculous.

Sounds like my experience growing up in a rural area. My high school was on the other side of our county, so I was the first person on the bus every morning, 60 minute ride each way.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#285

Post by bpyne »

shados wrote: post #228

I'll push this one step further: why is our entire society built around the idea that sleep literally doesn't matter? - Elementary school starting so early all the kids are half asleep in class. - College + Sleep? Not gonna happen. - 24 hour construction in certain part of NYC, check! - Most cities quiet hours are very precisely 8 hours. Hope your days start at 6:30/7:00 and you're falling asleep precisely at 11pm, a…

My wife's background is in childhood development. Her job involves keeping up with studies in the field. I remember her talking about this issue. There's evidence that school start times should be flipped for elementary and high school students: elementary going in earlier and high school later. Teenagers need more sleep due to their brains re-wiring, so the reasoning goes.

Keep in mind that in our school district, elementary school students need to be in by 8:40 while high school students need to be in by 7:50.

Our neighborhood is setup for walking. The elementary school is a six block walk, so most people walk their kids to school. My daughter didn't sleep past 7:00 for most of elementary school. Our experience was that elementary really could have started closer to 8:00.

I'm with you on all your other points. But, I think our experience was significantly different for elementary school.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#286

Post by LargeWu »

shados wrote: post #228

I'll push this one step further: why is our entire society built around the idea that sleep literally doesn't matter? - Elementary school starting so early all the kids are half asleep in class. - College + Sleep? Not gonna happen. - 24 hour construction in certain part of NYC, check! - Most cities quiet hours are very precisely 8 hours. Hope your days start at 6:30/7:00 and you're falling asleep precisely at 11pm, a…

A lot of elementary schools start early because of parent pressure to start early, because parents need to get their kids to school so they can get to work themselves.

We are lucky that our school district provides before and after school programs since my daughter's elementary school doesn't start until after 9:00 AM.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#287

Post by bluGill »

nomercy400 wrote: post #174
jillesvangurp wrote: post #171

I spent a week in a German hospital a few years back. One thing that struck me is that they offered sleeping pills to ensure patients got a good night of sleep. Worked for me. Also didn't notice too many interruptions at night. Another trend that I know of in the Netherlands (where I'm from) is that newly built hospitals have private rooms for all patients. These hospitals no longer have shared rooms by design. They…

How does that work: insurers trying to keep as many customers as possible is disjoint from the customer satisfaction a patient has when receiveing healthcare at a hospital. As a patient I don't think about my insurer when I'm at a hospital. I just want to be treated. It's more likely to be the opposite, where the hospitals with the better healthcare and care of the patients have to spend more money and thus get less…

As a potential future patient you think about the quality of care when you shop for insurance. An insurance plan that can show you get better care when you need it for only $[small]/month is something you will consider taking, particularity if "know someone" (including a random person on the internet) who got bad service and regretted it.

Of course if you are in the US you cannot shop for insurance, the law ensures that you take whatever your employer offers.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#288

Post by random878 »

As someone on HN who is medical, not tech, this thread is as frustrating to read as it would be for many of you to read doctor's opinions on how best to run a software engineering firm.

"I'm not a software engineer, but here's my full breakdown on where you are all going wrong based on using a BBC Micro for a week back in 1993"

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#289

Post by LargeWu »

snarf21 wrote: post #270
shados wrote: post #228

I'll push this one step further: why is our entire society built around the idea that sleep literally doesn't matter? - Elementary school starting so early all the kids are half asleep in class. - College + Sleep? Not gonna happen. - 24 hour construction in certain part of NYC, check! - Most cities quiet hours are very precisely 8 hours. Hope your days start at 6:30/7:00 and you're falling asleep precisely at 11pm, a…

The school thing is a challenge. If the parents have to be at work 8-5 plus time to drive there, the kids have to be up at the same time so they can be dropped off either at school or a day care setting to be put on a bus later. If the parent has a longer drive to work, the child must get up that much earlier. I don't really know how to solve this problem.

Our school district has a before school program starting as early as 7:00 so kids that need to be can be dropped off early, but most kids arrive much later. Classes don't start until 9:00 at our school.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#290

Post by billfruit »

kerbalspacepro wrote: post #241
cstross wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were dealing with doctors and nurses, right? One group runs a gauntlet of fire by sleep deprivation during pre-med training: with on-call work hours up to 120 hours a week. And the other group are typically on shift rotas so their sleep patterns are permanently disrupted. I'm going to call it for them being oblivious to the sleep requirements of ordinary human beings, because these professions are self-selecting…

Why do doctors not get sleep? It is still the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Start up founders? Fine. Grocery store bagger? I don't care. BUT A PERSON IN CHARGE OF TOUCHING (inside) MY BODY? I want their Fitbit sleep records for the last month showing a consistent 7 hours of sleep.

Also apart from the Doctors, the military is also notorious for their practice of having too little sleep.
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