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Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

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Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#181

Post by scarejunba »

kchoudhu wrote: post #10

For the birth of my second child, I learned to manage hospital staff so that they would leave my wife and newborn alone unless there was an emergency. I proactively scheduled scans, vital checks for the next morning so that the patients could rest. The experience was so much better than what my wife and first child had. I do not understand why hospitals cannot do this kind of considerate scheduling by default.

If you'd write a blog post and talk about all the tests you managed to have done right, I would be ever so grateful.

Thank you for even mentioning this is possible.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#182

Post by cstross »

mattjaynes wrote: post #137

I recently had a family member in the intensive care unit (ICU) for over a month in Austin, Texas. I quickly learned my main contribution would be protecting her sleep when I saw she hadn't slept in days because of the constant interruptions. She went from reasonable and compliant in taking her medication, to extremely irritated and noncompliant with the doctors. Of course I could see this was due to sleep deprivatio…

You were dealing with doctors and nurses, right?

One group runs a gauntlet of fire by sleep deprivation during pre-med training: with on-call work hours up to 120 hours a week. And the other group are typically on shift rotas so their sleep patterns are permanently disrupted.

I'm going to call it for them being oblivious to the sleep requirements of ordinary human beings, because these professions are self-selecting for sleep-dep survival traits; only people who can work insane hours make it through hospital medical training, and only people who can take shift work in their stride make it as hospital nurses.

(Also, my observation of hospital doctors is that anyone you see on a ward outside core office hours is relatively junior, i.e. aged about 22-35. Senior consultants and professors work normal hours like everybody else. As for the nurses ... my understanding is that ICU nursing burns them up.)

(Source of observations: former hospital pharmacist here, who just got a refresher course c/o a relative who spent three months on an acute stroke ward this fall.)

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#183

Post by DFHippie »

cknoxrun wrote: post #52
MattLaroche wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear it. For our first child, for the first 24 hours or so postpartum, my wife and child both needed something checked every couple hours. Our overnight nurse said something like "I'll be doing your wife's checks at midnight and 2am, and your baby's at 1am and 3am". When I asked if my wife and child could be checked in the same entries, it turned out they could. I was surprised the hospital didn't do it by default…

Did you have your child in the US? If so I am curious, do the nurses come and visit your home the next day and a week after? I live in Canada and was very surprised when they came to check on the baby and my wife the next day, looking for jaundice, bleeding, etc. I'm genuinely curious if that is covered by insurance in the US?

I've been in the hospital without insurance. They bill you for gratuitous stuff regardless of whether you have insurance. They don't mention that there will be a bill when they ask if you want your newborn's hearing checked or if you want to try the experimental sap-based wound sealer they happen to have (both things that actually happened). They seem kind and polite. Then they bill you. One doctor looks over another's shoulder for five minutes. They each bill you.

This is in the US, mind you. In fact, both stays were in Nashville, TN, in the early 2000s.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#184

Post by DFHippie »

mcv wrote: post #148
dazc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he felt awkward doing that? There is also a possibility that their reaction would not favourable. Sure, they may shut up but, afterwards, the relationship between his wife and the carers could become frosty? Rude people tend not to like their shortcomings being challenged.

The birth of our first child was a very good lesson in assertiveness for me. I learned that as the spouse, you're basically the only one with a full overview of the whole process. In the hospital, shifts change, they're taking care of multiple births simultaneously, and I'm the only one who knows how my wife feels. That gives you a powerful mandate to do whatever is necessary to take care of your partner. So absolute…

s/oxytocin/oxycontin/

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#185

Post by ccozan »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #171

I spent a week in a German hospital a few years back. One thing that struck me is that they offered sleeping pills to ensure patients got a good night of sleep. Worked for me. Also didn't notice too many interruptions at night. Another trend that I know of in the Netherlands (where I'm from) is that newly built hospitals have private rooms for all patients. These hospitals no longer have shared rooms by design. They…

Possibly this has to do with the state assurance companies who need to justify the tax ( approx 15% ), so keeping someone in hospital longer works for them.

Single time when I was in hospital, but private assured, they did everything to keep me as little as possible, even skipping an OP for a non invasive procedure, because the recovery time was inexistent.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#186

Post by morganvachon »

I can attest to this issue first hand. In 1995 I was diagnosed with cancer and had to undergo major surgery, recovery from that in ICU, then several rounds of chemotherapy over the next nine months. While I was in the hospital for a week of chemo, I got maybe two or three hours of sleep per night with a half hour nap off and on throughout the day, and this was on sedatives and painkillers. I can only imagine how much better my recovery would have gone if I'd been allowed to sleep all night during my stays and didn't need sedatives to balance the constant interruptions.

I'm certainly not a medical expert nor a sleep expert, but I'd wager if nurses and doctors would let their patients have a full night of rest without interruption, they would see much faster recovery times.

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#188

Post by ddingus »

smoll wrote: post #172
ddeck wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it free to walk down the sidewalk in your country? Under your definition it's not, since ultimately taxes likely paid for that sidewalk, but I think most people would describe it as free.

Depends on if you think in purely capitalistic terms (most but not all Americans) or not (again, most Europeans). I mean one way to think about it is the sidewalk is exploitable by businesses as a potential source of revenue for people who want to ride electric scooters (and other businesses that directly grow the economy) and they can pay lobbyists who drive the engine of American economic growth (lol), whereas you…

Walking on the way to the bank, to get a loan, to start a business qualifies as economic activity.

As does going to the store, and a whole bunch of other things.

The USA built the Interstate Highway System for exactly the reason of economic growth. The ideas behind it are no different from the ones that justified sidewalks.

Should any small town evaluate their sidewalk projects, like we have the Interestate Highway Project, assuming they have the records and they probably don't, they would find those sidewalks probably returned a couple times their cost already, and will continue to deliver that, easily funding their upkeep.

(something we seem to have forgotten about roads, which has allowed tolls to encroach on and marginalize said growth and value)

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#189

Post by C1sc0cat »

flippyhead wrote: post #158
trashtester wrote: post #149

People die or suffer serious harm in hospitals all the time. This often happens during sleep, and in many cases it could have been prevented if the patient had been checked on more frequently. It is much easier to confirm that the patient is ok if they are awake. When the nurse softly asks "do you feel ok?" when drawing blood in the night, it is not just meant as soothing, but just as much to check if further treatme…

This is interesting and not something I'd considered. I wonder though if they've got the balance right. These protocols were developed no doubt before it was really understood how incredibly dangerous poor sleep is to our health most especially during recovery from illness.

It does depend on what sort of ward you are in I have mostly spent time in low risk and high risk renal wards and intensive care.

If your in a high risk category they would rather be safe than sorry

Re: Why Do Hospitals Hate Sleep So Much?

#190

Post by technofiend »

cstross wrote: post #182
mattjaynes wrote: post #137

I recently had a family member in the intensive care unit (ICU) for over a month in Austin, Texas. I quickly learned my main contribution would be protecting her sleep when I saw she hadn't slept in days because of the constant interruptions. She went from reasonable and compliant in taking her medication, to extremely irritated and noncompliant with the doctors. Of course I could see this was due to sleep deprivatio…

You were dealing with doctors and nurses, right? One group runs a gauntlet of fire by sleep deprivation during pre-med training: with on-call work hours up to 120 hours a week. And the other group are typically on shift rotas so their sleep patterns are permanently disrupted. I'm going to call it for them being oblivious to the sleep requirements of ordinary human beings, because these professions are self-selecting…

>One group runs a gauntlet of fire by sleep deprivation during pre-med training: with on-call work hours up to 120 hours a week.

I would argue this is the source of injury and death to the patients that needs to be addressed rather than powered through in some sort of macho hazing ritual. Anecdotally a very tired doctor is allegedly how my wife lost her mother.

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