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Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

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Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#111

Post by a1369209993 »

lugg wrote: post #84
adrianmonk wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a separate issue, but a real one. Practically speaking, many non-technical users _do_ want to formulate their query in an imprecise, sloppy manner and have the search engine figure it out. Programmers are capable of and accustomed to putting a lot of care and precision into exactly how they communicate (especially when communicating with a computer), but regular people don't usually do that. They may not even…

Likewise matching DCP-L2550DW to pages with DCP-L2550BW or something similar. It is so obviously specific a no results answer is better than a misleading one. I think this is due to people more often than not finding the top page useful regardless which just reinforces the link. But it's super annoying to find you've just waited for a 300mb download of the wrong driver.

I think this is a lot more defensible. Eg (real example) if I search for 74HCT350, I would probably be okay, if not actively happy, to get results for 74ACT350 (a socket-equivalent chip in a somewhat faster logic family). It's much less defensible if "DCP-L2550DW" is quoted, since that's a clear indication that you want the exact string, but it's still better than outright ignoring half your query the way google does.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#112

Post by mitchellford »

rc_kas wrote: post #57

Well .. they certainly do a shitty job at personalizing my results. These days I can never find what I want on Google. I've resorted to using other search tools (github search, reddit search, stack overflow search, ddg, etc)

Same experience. Oh well. All good things come to an end. I wonder what happened?

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#113

Post by klodolph »

Bartweiss wrote: post #98
TeMPOraL wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can buy the "eventual consistency" argument, and maaaybe even the desktop/mobile argument, but location and language are part of what people mean by "personalization" (even if not technically correct), and frankly, they're the most annoying part. I suppose that Google wants to optimize for people typing "football" in their search engine, at the expense of those trying to type "football results $countryname", or som…

> location and language are... the most annoying part This is a constant frustration - I fight with this feature every time I search for info about some place I'm not, for instance to plan travel. Searching with a country/state/zip alongside the query helps, but it's a kludge that's much worse than actual location-specificity, especially if one is going to an ambiguous place like Portland or Washington. I'd very much…

> Maps on desktop has a great feature of "leave at" or "arrive by", which was removed from mobile in favor of a 'helpful' integration that can notify you about when to leave.

I use this feature all the time and it's still there on the mobile versions, as far as I know. Ask for directions to a place, you'll see a list of routes, above the routes is a dark blue bar saying "depart at HH:MM". Touch that and it will let you select departure time, arrival time, or the last train.

Maybe this feature has moved around but it’s definitely there on mobile. If you touch an individual route it will take you to a different screen which doesn’t have this button, so go back to the list of routes and it will be there.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#114

Post by GunlogAlm »

esrauch wrote: post #99
xvector wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, Google is almost certainly using canvas fingerprinting to track you across accounts, webpages, and more regardless of incognito. There should be zero expectation of privacy when using a Google service. I've switched to searx.me, which wraps Google and (optionally) a bunch of other search engines.

Do you have a citation that they do canvas fingerprinting or are you just guessing?

Probably not, hence "almost certainly".

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#115

Post by jonas21 »

reaperducer wrote: post #75
jonas21 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you put the word "margins" in quotes in your query, all of your results will contain that word. Similarly, you can force words not to appear by prefixing them with a "-". > The only solution I can see is for a search engine to support both styles of communication. Isn't this exactly what you're asking for? Non-technical users can be imprecise and let Google figure it out, while technical or power users can get mor…

If you put the word "margins" in quotes in your query, all of your results will contain that word. This seemed to be true at one time, but I noticed last night that it doesn't always work. These days it seems to put include results without the word, then provide a tiny link below each deficient result with a link to "must include" the missing word in a new search. That used to be the previous behavior, but now it's i…

Do you have an example where adding quotes doesn't work? As far as I can tell, it always works for me (yeah, we may be getting different personalized results, but still...)

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#116

Post by dna_polymerase »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #60
ur-whale wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have switched to DuckDuckGo a long time ago, there basically is no proof they're actually not doing exactly what Google does.

You're asking for proof of a negative. DuckDuckGo just put out a post criticizing Google for personalizing search results. They're a small company without many resources, and privacy has been their primary selling point from the get-go. Yes, DuckDuckGo could also be personalizing their own results, but if they were and people found out, there's risk of a significant outcry. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I'm i…

They are VC-funded and make money selling ads. Stop idolising DDG as the true and only fighter for privacy. Sooner or later they will bow down to Ad Cash or fuck up otherwise.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#117

Post by baroffoos »

tmaly wrote: post #78
rdtsc wrote: post #51

I remember Paul Graham gave a keynote at one of the Pycons some years ago. It was about interesting ideas that you might want to work on in the future. One idea was to build a search engine that returns unpersonalized results. He talked about how Google will be moving into a "it's true, if it's true for you" kind of world. His idea was that it will open new opportunities. I think DuckDuckGo is one example, and they'v…

It use to be that DuckDuckGo would let you contribute to the search engine years back providing interfaces to various 3rd party data. I am not sure if that is still the case? Has anyone written anything for DuckDuckGo?

You used to be able to contribute to those info cards at the top of searches but about a year ago they closed it off from external contributions.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#118

Post by baroffoos »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #80
godelski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've observed that too. Then force the words to be there with quotes, finding that I still get plenty of resume. Which seems weird to me, because most people don't travel to the second page. I'd rather have an exact result than more pages. But then again, it doesn't seem like a simple problem and one that has companies in either way.

I suspect this is one of those features that helps the less technically inclined majority, while hearting those who know what they're doing. I can see the average Googler including words that aren't actually relevant to their query. As long as I can force it with quotes, I'm happy. Google has even started suggesting next to the results "include only results with the word XXX", to remind me the quotes might be needed.

I have noticed this too. I tend to include all the key words and the problem domain in my search and get bad results on google and then other people just type a whole sentience exactly like you would say it to a human and get back good results.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#119

Post by dzonga »

study finds in 2018. I found out google was 'listening' when I got youtube recommendations on my friends laptop in 2012, when I wasn't signed in, that I get on mine. Btw our youtube habits are different. Given his playstation had different recommendations.

Re: Google personalizes search results even when you’re logged out, new study finds

#120

Post by frandroid »

Bartweiss wrote: post #106
harshvladha wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between Signed out, and Incognito (no cookies)! + People generally tend to miss the point that Incognito doesn't prevent sharing the IP of the user. + I think DuckDuckGo's study missed out using VPN in their analysis. i.e., SignedIn vs Incognito vs (Incognito+VPN)

The "even in Incognito" part of this is certainly the biggest result I see. And I agree on the study limitation; attempting to clean up localization effects after the fact doesn't feel like a strong fix. It should be possible to isolate device and location effects by using multiple devices in one location, then VPN-ing one device to multiple 'locations'. One thing that caught my eye was Google's response about Incogn…

Google definitely personalizes based on geoIP location, that's not exactly a secret.
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