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Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

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Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#11
post #4

Gabe from Microsoft here. Happy to answer any questions. A few links to help you explore the spec and tooling: - https://cnab.io - https://duffle.sh/ - https://open.microsoft.com/2018/12/04/announcing-cnab-cloud-...

I am one of those people who learn through examples. Do you have an example of using duffle for defining some sort of application? I work with this stuff and the websites are so abstract as to what it does and the spec is so low level...

Absolutely! You can find some example bundles here: https://aka.ms/example-bundles

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am one of those people who learn through examples. Do you have an example of using duffle for defining some sort of application? I work with this stuff and the websites are so abstract as to what it does and the spec is so low level...

Absolutely! You can find some example bundles here: https://aka.ms/example-bundles

Here is also a video of us running through some examples to give you a high level walkthrough of CNAB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26e5-UK4YRA

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#17
post #4

Gabe from Microsoft here. Happy to answer any questions. A few links to help you explore the spec and tooling: - https://cnab.io - https://duffle.sh/ - https://open.microsoft.com/2018/12/04/announcing-cnab-cloud-...

Do CNAB bundles support the ability to specify where parameter and credential details might be fetched from? Currently, we provide developers with lab environments that wire together a small subset of containers under Docker compose for local development because running the full system is impractical. However, most of our lab environments may have important external dependencies (i.e. Slack, SMTP gateways, etc) that…

Yes. See credential sets in the specification.

https://github.com/deislabs/cnab-spec/blob/master/802-creden...

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#18
Both crossplane[1] and CNAB are attempting to play in similar spaces, understanding that deploying an application for the cloud (public or private) is more than just dumping your software into an image and giving it to a provider (be it K8s or some other IaaS/PaaS stack). There's more associated with the application, specifically what it means to orchestrate IaaS/PaaS/SaaS to realize your application.

But I see CNAB falling into the same trap as Helm, and many of the package managers before them (including newer variants with things like charm/juju), an archive with some notion of lifecycle events is not enough. Even though it's cute that lifecycle events are encapsulated in containers making it easier to manage their runtime dependencies.

What I think makes Crossplane's model more attractive is the notion of building on top of Kubernetes design and leveraging things like the operator pattern[2]. Now application stacks can do more interesting actions during their lifecycle, which can work to preserve availability during an event (like upgrading your application stack). Crossplane is about expanding the management of resources beyond just containers running in your cluster, but to any resource you can model in the K8s control plane and writing software that can react to events related to those resources.

[1] https://blog.upbound.io/introducing-crossplane-open-source-m... [2] https://coreos.com/operators/

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#19
post #15

Does this directly compete with Helm?

No, in fact we view CNAB as enabling broader adoption of Helm. Some of the first bundles we built use Helm and Kubernetes. See: https://github.com/deislabs/bundles/tree/master/hellohelm

Re: Microsoft and Docker team up to make packaging cloud-native applications easier

#20

Both crossplane[1] and CNAB are attempting to play in similar spaces, understanding that deploying an application for the cloud (public or private) is more than just dumping your software into an image and giving it to a provider (be it K8s or some other IaaS/PaaS stack). There's more associated with the application, specifically what it means to orchestrate IaaS/PaaS/SaaS to realize your application. But I see CNAB…

We are big fans of Kubernetes operators. However, taking a dependency on Kubernetes to solve this problem is not something our customers want. CNAB design acknowledges this, and leans on the concept of invocation images to perform lifecycle management.

Take the example of deploying serverless functions and a cloud based datastore (like CosmosDB) with a 3rd-party DNS service. Kubernetes operators are a poor fit for this, as they presume the existence of a Kubernetes cluster.

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