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Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

marketwatch.com

11–20 of 83 posts

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#11
post #5

> As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. When bitcoin appeared it's price was zero, yet people still mined it despite being a clear "worthless" activity.

Because the cost of mining adjusts depending on how many people are mining. It goes down when the hash rate goes down.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#13
post #5

> As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. When bitcoin appeared it's price was zero, yet people still mined it despite being a clear "worthless" activity.

Back then, Bitcoin was full of possibilities. Right now, it seems Bitcoin's utility was, let's just say perhaps exaggerated.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#14

The article is misinformed: I am the first one to jump on Bitcoin's flaws, but this here just reeks of somebody not understanding the protocol: > As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. The cost of mining adjusts depending on the hash rate , so if nobody is mining the cost of mining goes down until people start mi…

Exactly. I don't understand how the article can miss such a fundamental aspect of Bitcoin's design. What this means is that the cost of mining will go down and adjust accordingly.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#15

> In that respect, it is more like gold, in that its value is driven to some extent by its desirability and potential uses, but mostly by its cost of mining This is not how prices work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labor_theory_of_value What matters is how much somebody will pay for an asset (supply and demand) not how much it cost to produce that asset to begin with.

It's actually not that simple, and strangely one of those areas where economics has had a blind spot for a long time.

Lots of businesses use cost-plus pricing, which contradicts the econ 101 assumption that you're repeating.

Now, one might naively argue that even with cost-plus pricing, the outcome is still the same because businesses who set their price too high will be either outcompeted or just find no demand either way and disappear from the market.

However, this assumes that the buyer-side utility functions and price expectations are somehow exogenous, and come from outside the entire market system. But that's obviously not true: people form their expectations of how much things are supposed to cost, and even what the value of goods are (see Giffen goods for an extreme case) by looking at the de facto prices of goods -- and those are usually set by the suppliers, using cost-plus pricing.

The bottom line is that utility functions and price expectations are really endogenous, which radically breaks the econ 101 model of supply and demand. I've heard of economists making various attempts to fix their models to account for this, but I'm not aware that a consensus on how to fix this has emerged.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#16
post #7

Bitcoin's price drop might look bad enought to warrant sensational articles, but if you take any bitcoin price chart over the last years (like [1]) and switch it to logarithmic price, it doesn't appear exceptional. The same thing happened in 2013. 1: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts

If you take any time series asset of the price of any asset, and switch it to logarithmic, none of the drops will appear exceptional either. That’s what logarithmic scale does.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#17

The article is misinformed: I am the first one to jump on Bitcoin's flaws, but this here just reeks of somebody not understanding the protocol: > As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. The cost of mining adjusts depending on the hash rate , so if nobody is mining the cost of mining goes down until people start mi…

This has been addressed in the article:

> So, it appears bitcoin is now entering a death spiral: If the price continues to drop and the cost of mining does not fall correspondingly (the cost of mining will algorithmically decrease, but not necessarily to same extent as the decline in prices), bitcoin will quickly go to zero.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#18
post #5

> As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. When bitcoin appeared it's price was zero, yet people still mined it despite being a clear "worthless" activity.

The complexity back then was much simpler; you could mine more with less equipment in less time. So you made more “money”. Heck I mined my first 100 coins on AMD Frozer card in one week time.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#19
post #17

The article is misinformed: I am the first one to jump on Bitcoin's flaws, but this here just reeks of somebody not understanding the protocol: > As I argued, once Bitcoin’s price falls below its cost of mining, the incentive to mine will deteriorate, thrusting bitcoin into a death spiral. The cost of mining adjusts depending on the hash rate , so if nobody is mining the cost of mining goes down until people start mi…

This has been addressed in the article: > So, it appears bitcoin is now entering a death spiral: If the price continues to drop and the cost of mining does not fall correspondingly (the cost of mining will algorithmically decrease, but not necessarily to same extent as the decline in prices), bitcoin will quickly go to zero.

Why would the cost of mining not fall correspondingly? It will adjust until it becomes profitable again, nobody is going to run mining farms if they are clearly losing money every single day.

Re: Bitcoin is close to becoming worthless?

#20
post #7

Bitcoin's price drop might look bad enought to warrant sensational articles, but if you take any bitcoin price chart over the last years (like [1]) and switch it to logarithmic price, it doesn't appear exceptional. The same thing happened in 2013. 1: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#charts

In 2013 most people didn't know about bitcoin. A big part of the spike in 2017 was from people who never heard about it before. Today everyone knows about bitcoin.
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