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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#51

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #28
cauldron wrote: post #21

Western media can't see through the veneer, it's true that China has vast amounts of eletric vehicle, but it's due in part to the tax cut and subsidies offered, the vehicles are generally of low quality and little effort put in, some look like ugly plastic toys, no real technology edge across-the-board. Some cars are just cobbled together to claim subsidies or even defraud the government, since the subsidies are kind…

Beijing’s plate lottery has separate pools for ICE and EV cars, so if you want to get a car quickly in Beijing best to go with an EV. Even though Tesla doesn’t qualify for subsidies in China, they have been very popular as a non crap option for rich Beijingers who would have gotten an Audi instead. I’ve ridden in a BYD electric taxi before and it felt like a normal car. As long as it doesn’t explode, I guess.

There seem to be a lot of Teslas in Hong Kong, too. I wonder if the same reasoning also applies?

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#52

Post by A2017U1 »

InGodsName wrote: post #44
chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

It works in china because CCP thinks, "if it's better for business/control/money/people, we'll do it, doesn't matter if some of us loses in this" Basically, if you are in goverment and you've stock holding in Gas cars, and they are lobbying, gas cars stay. But in China, CCP will simply acquire controlling interest in new winning EV firm if it's better from the perspective of power/money/control over an industry, so t…

They are exporting more petrol vehicles than ever before.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#53

Post by contingencies »

chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

The plates are green for EVs. The blue electric BYD taxis are newer, quieter, cleaner and better maintained, and - significantly for foreigners - substantially more spacious. It's not just the cost, it's the comfort.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#54

Post by contingencies »

Animats wrote: post #8

New Flyer, the US's biggest bus maker, is making battery-electric buses. But sales are low - 40 to Montreal, 10 to Toronto, 35 to Los Angeles. In comparison, Shenzhen recently replaced 16,000 of its buses with electrics, all from BYD. Shenzhen also replaced all of its cabs with electrics.

A few months ago here in Zhuhai I met a guy who works for a UK vehicle conglomerate here in China that sells buses to Canada (Toronto if I recall). May have even been an international parent of the same group. Operations all over the world. IIRC they buy the chassis and bits out of China, and assemble in the US for Canada. He was explaining the chassis design for a Canadian bus is actually quite interesting. Due to the heavy use of salt on roads, it has to be quite expensively produced due to the speed of corrosion.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#55

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

Brakenshire wrote: post #49
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #48

Even London's black cabs are going electric, thanks to the Chinese. The London Taxi Company's Chinese owners (Geely) opened a £300m electric taxi factory in Coventry, UK last year. I'm not sure how many of these are in active service but I see them driving around all the time (presumably testing) as the factory is not far from my office. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/22/london-taxi-...

You see them regularly in London, I’d say 5% of taxis have switched or thereabouts. It only launched in the last year.

That's great to hear, I have to admit it's over a year since I was last in London.

That said, the odds of getting run over by a black cab were already quite high so hopefully they're not totally silent. ;)

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#57

Post by Angostura »

Brakenshire wrote: post #49
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #48

Even London's black cabs are going electric, thanks to the Chinese. The London Taxi Company's Chinese owners (Geely) opened a £300m electric taxi factory in Coventry, UK last year. I'm not sure how many of these are in active service but I see them driving around all the time (presumably testing) as the factory is not far from my office. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/03/22/london-taxi-...

You see them regularly in London, I’d say 5% of taxis have switched or thereabouts. It only launched in the last year.

From January 2018 all new taxis had to be zero-emission capable (ZEC), with an official CO2 emissions figure of no more than 50 g/km, and a minimum zero-tailpipe emission range of 30 miles.

You're not allowed to have a taxi older than 15 years.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#58

Post by dmurray »

marvin wrote: post #17
chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

That type of taxation of externalities is really a no-brainer in the West too, but there’s just not democratic majority for implementing it. A tragedy. Tragedy of the commons, really, on a spectacular scale. A general CO2 tax wouldn’t be hard to implement if we were a dictatorship.

Lots of Western countries have heavy tax on gasoline. This passes the cost for the externality on to the taxi owner instead of the customer, but comes to pretty much the same thing.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#59

Post by lustysocietyorg »

lolive wrote: post #56

Let's consider hydrogen cars are the next big thing. Is it a good move to go massively towards electric cars? Especially regarding batteries that will have to be massively replaced in 2 years?

AFAIK use of hydrogen is inefficient in several ways (creation, storage) and thus there is no reason to expect that hydrogen fuel is the next big thing for cars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNV8qi_rJBg

IMO the next big things are:

- Fuel like ethanol. https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2017/09/18/solar-fuel-system-recy...

- Quickly charging batteries that are not affected by dendrites.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#60

Post by NicoJuicy »

Well, actually in Belgium there is a coöperation between: VDL Bus Roeselare en Van Hool .

They are not as big as BYD ofc, but the first one drove around the 1st of October and i think Belgian/Europe quality > Chinese quality.

Other European alternatives: Finish Linkker OY en Swedish: Volvo Bushet.

PS. They are opening a construction site also in the US.

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