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China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

wsj.com

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Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#31

Post by omarforgotpwd »

chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

I agree, but it’s not such a no brainer. You’re making a common purchase more expensive. Meanwhile EVs are only similari price because they are heavily subsidized by governments all around the world.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#33

Post by llukas »

RidingPegasus wrote: post #18
rch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know that they'll have an easier time producing batteries and electricity than gasoline, that's all.

Is the world running out of petrol? Chinese fuel prices are fairly cheap on a global scale. It has far more to do with public discontent over air quality than petro-politics.

Is seems we are running out of breathable air faster than petrol. :)

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#34

Post by jacobush »

njarboe wrote: post #27
marvin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That type of taxation of externalities is really a no-brainer in the West too, but there’s just not democratic majority for implementing it. A tragedy. Tragedy of the commons, really, on a spectacular scale. A general CO2 tax wouldn’t be hard to implement if we were a dictatorship.

It might be if your most powerful general owned the national oil company.

You mean like in the US? Oh wait...

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#35

Post by davedx »

marvin wrote: post #17
chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

That type of taxation of externalities is really a no-brainer in the West too, but there’s just not democratic majority for implementing it. A tragedy. Tragedy of the commons, really, on a spectacular scale. A general CO2 tax wouldn’t be hard to implement if we were a dictatorship.

In the Netherlands they’ve just reversed subsidies for electric vehicles, increasing bijtelling for them which makes them a lot more expensive for business purchases and leases. It’s a step backwards.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#36

Post by mtgx »

marvin wrote: post #17
chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

That type of taxation of externalities is really a no-brainer in the West too, but there’s just not democratic majority for implementing it. A tragedy. Tragedy of the commons, really, on a spectacular scale. A general CO2 tax wouldn’t be hard to implement if we were a dictatorship.

So do you think Saudi Arabia will introduce a carbon tax anytime soon?

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#37

Post by rch »

RidingPegasus wrote: post #18
rch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know that they'll have an easier time producing batteries and electricity than gasoline, that's all.

Is the world running out of petrol? Chinese fuel prices are fairly cheap on a global scale. It has far more to do with public discontent over air quality than petro-politics.

China became a net importer of oil in the 90s, and the negative externalities of petroleum production would naturally induce them to focus on demand reduction to alleviate that dependency. They also travel far and wide to drill (just as the U.S. does).

Is that "petro-politics", environmentalism, or rational energy policy?

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#38

Post by mtgx »

chillacy wrote: post #6

Just came back from Shenzen, seemed like most of the taxis were electric. You can tell because they're blue vs the red gas taxis. Another ingenious thing they do is there's an added fee to ride red taxis, so people avoid them like they're plague-ridden when they have other options. I thought that was a brilliant use of taxing externalities, you let customers decide whether paying the fee is worth it.

How is it so ingenious? It's very common to tax the things you don't want your citizens to use much of. Like taxing alcohol or drinks with sugar, etc.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#39

Post by mtgx »

Animats wrote: post #8

New Flyer, the US's biggest bus maker, is making battery-electric buses. But sales are low - 40 to Montreal, 10 to Toronto, 35 to Los Angeles. In comparison, Shenzhen recently replaced 16,000 of its buses with electrics, all from BYD. Shenzhen also replaced all of its cabs with electrics.

Without researching it I imagine New Flyer's buses either have low real range or they are super expensive. Or both.

Re: China ‘Is the Only One in the Race’ to Make Electric Buses, Taxis and Trucks

#40

Post by rapnie »

davedx wrote: post #35
marvin wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That type of taxation of externalities is really a no-brainer in the West too, but there’s just not democratic majority for implementing it. A tragedy. Tragedy of the commons, really, on a spectacular scale. A general CO2 tax wouldn’t be hard to implement if we were a dictatorship.

In the Netherlands they’ve just reversed subsidies for electric vehicles, increasing bijtelling for them which makes them a lot more expensive for business purchases and leases. It’s a step backwards.

Yes, it is very frustrating. The Dutch are exceptionally good at talking the talk, when it comes to renewable energy transition, having years-long talk about the opportunity to become the best, most innovative player (e.g. in solar), and then not walking the walk. Suddenly stopping subsidies because of 'unprecedented success' is the norm, leaving all businesses who had invested out in the cold.

Netherlands is now a laggard in sustainable energy in the EU. I guess we have 'pro-business' liberal-democratic ruling party (VVD) and greenwashing-only companies such as Shell to thank for that. They prefer 'lobbycracy' above democracy.

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