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Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

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Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#141
post #14

Aka the "Apple app store" and "Trader Joes" model of competition: Build a platform for other people to innovate on top of, then steal their best ideas after you've validated that they work well on your own platform.

trying to see how this is the Trader Joe's model. i thought what Trader Joe's did was find food makers that sell products at other retailers (e.g. Naked Juice, sold for example at at Whole Foods) and then negotiate a deal with that same food maker to supply that same product to TJ's under the store label and at a lower price. if I'm not mistaken, TJ's also develops its own product concepts (e.g. Thai Chili Cashew Nut…

Hmm I was under the impression that they were ripping off those companies, but you could certainly be right. I just saw the pattern of (for example) Snap Pea crisps under a non-TJ brand get popular at TJ's, then TJ's labeled version comes out and the other one disappears.

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#142
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kills me that a website full of well paid people in IT who all benefit from the free market always cry for regulation. I guess you don’t realize how many people in middle America would love to “tax the rich” and if you’re making six figures “they” consider you rich.

As an aside, if you make six figures, you are rich.

Agreed. Plus many six figure salaries are attached to equal or greater amounts of equity, 401K match and typically low cost health insurance. So while it’s not jet-set wealth it is more than enough to have a very comfortable life with few things out of reach for you.

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#143
Amazon is also using their consumer goods sales data of their merchants to determine what products they should themselves profitably create and sell. For instance Amazon began directly selling Amazon branded DisplayPort to HDMI adapters after they determined they could profitably undercut the merchants on their platform. Unfortunately I can’t dig up the link.

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#144

The trend I've noticed is that AWS makes a lot of very half-baked services that appear to compete with third-parties, but provide about 10% of the features and usability. Maybe they're hoping that's enough for the bulk of users (and maybe it is), but from what I've seen, if you want to do anything serious, you still have to use a third-party. Take CloudWatch for example. It's technically "competing" with Splunk, Data…

UI/UX is definitely not their strong suit and CloudWatch is one of the worst offenders. I really hope they aquire a company to deliver a completely revamped observability platform in the same vein as where Stackdriver is headed. They really seem to stuggle building things in house that have a great user experience. That being said, they excel at building things that are scalable, reliable and secure, and while you ma…

They're revamping some of the console pages, like RDS and ActiveMQ with a new design language, but I think their official stance is that no one in their right might should be using the console at scale anyway. The console itself uses the APIs, so anyone doing anything respectable should just use the APIs. The console is really a second class citizen, and I assume the designers who work on it are as well.

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#145
Disclosure: I work on Google Cloud.

For what it's worth, I often recommend customers look to our partners (e.g., Elastic with their managed offering). The people who build the product will know it best. Moreover, they would be way better suited to running say a multi-cloud variant, or staying with you as you move between cloud providers.

There are still barriers though for third-parties on a cloud platform, some of which we as providers can slowly chip away at:

- Integration/Feel: You want to be in the console and feel like a natural part of the platform. This is double-edged though, because holding all partners to such a high bar (say a Google internal API review... ha!) is unrealistic.

- Support: Who do customers call? Their overall cloud provider or their specific service provider? If the customer is having trouble with their Elastic cluster, is it because we're having a GCE outage or did the customer write a query-of-death? For the latter, our front-line support won't be much help. [Edit: And you want to be able to still have a very fast "Hey! My stuff is down!" path. I think technological things could make automatic handoff here much better, but I believe it'll be "not great" for a while.]

- Economics: most service providers are going to be smaller than our largest customers. Those customers have usually signed up for multi-year commitments with high volumes resulting in a discount. If your service pricing model is "on-demand GCE pricing plus our service fee", you suddenly look over 2x as expensive to their TCO folks (just from missing Committed Use, or RIs with AWS). Unbundling the resources from the management fee would make this easier, but I've not seen many service providers attempt it.

We owe you much better docs (start here [1]), but we're trying to get there on at least some of these. All of the "human" factors though are still going to be a challenge, no matter how much software gets written.

[1] https://cloud.google.com/service-infrastructure/docs/tenancy...

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UI/UX is definitely not their strong suit and CloudWatch is one of the worst offenders. I really hope they aquire a company to deliver a completely revamped observability platform in the same vein as where Stackdriver is headed. They really seem to stuggle building things in house that have a great user experience. That being said, they excel at building things that are scalable, reliable and secure, and while you ma…

API gateway is one of the worst UI's i've ever used.

Aws CodePipe or Workdocs does not agree with this...

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#147
post #12

AWS’s managed FTP service too

In all honestly though, "SFTP-as-as-service" doesn't sound like a very sexy or sustainable business model.

Sure, not “sexy” enough for the HN crowd but it sucks to be these guys https://hostedftp.com since https://aws.amazon.com/sftp/ was announced

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#148
AWS is dominant and doing pretty well in the IaaS space, but lack of enough good quality middlewares and enterprise software comparing with its competitors, Azure and Oracle.

Maybe this claim is not fair for DynamoDB, Kinesis, Lambda and etc. But these are just managed service. Customers could not get a binary to play around on their own server. So I could not call them software or middleware.

So their strategy is simply making the most popular software running on IaaS as a managed service, like managed Hadoop, Spark, K8S and now Kafka...

From a customer's perspective, it is pretty good since managed service just works without hassles to manage servers.

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#149

I am personally much happier to see AWS implement managed versions of OSS like Kubernetes and Kafka, than to only see them offer their proprietary versions (Kinesis & ECS). The fact that all of these services are based on OSS software is what will help keep Amazon in check as they continue to grow and dominate, because at the end of the day if AWS starts to turn into Oracle and get abusive with their pricing/licensin…

The story I heard about Kinesis (and it could be a misunderstanding) is that Amazon originally wanted to offer managed Kafka but they couldn’t get it working with their infrastructure and started from scratch. MSK makes sense now as Kafka has matured significantly, while Amazon has had experience in porting OSS onto their infrastructure stack (Aurora, managed ActiveMQ, EKS).

Kinesis is based on DynamoDB, so not from scratch...

Re: Amazon's cloud business is competing with its own customers

#150

The trend I've noticed is that AWS makes a lot of very half-baked services that appear to compete with third-parties, but provide about 10% of the features and usability. Maybe they're hoping that's enough for the bulk of users (and maybe it is), but from what I've seen, if you want to do anything serious, you still have to use a third-party. Take CloudWatch for example. It's technically "competing" with Splunk, Data…

Amazon’s goal with this is to check the boxes. Enterprise customers don’t give a hoot about quality, just compliance.

"Enterprise customers don’t give a hoot about quality, just compliance."

This is a broad statement :-)

Compliance is mandatory and often sales advantage for being able to sell to certain class of enterprises.

IMHO, quality vs. rich feature set are different things and I see that being mixed up in the overall discussion. All AWS services exceed certain quality standards. Services are built to solve customer problems first. It's not unusual to find gap in feature set vs. competition.

Disclaimer: I used to work for AWS, but do not work there anymore.

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