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People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

newyorker.com

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Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#11

Post by empath75 »

2bitencryption wrote: post #5

The article states: "The calamity of the stone stack, in our anxious times, seems admittedly minor. But it’s a prominent example of how social media can generate scale, transforming an activity that would be mostly harmless in isolation into something with planetary impact." Does this mean, if I do not see any other rock stacks in a national park, I can create my own, since there is no real harm unless it is done at…

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorites_paradox

Example of the sorites paradox.

One isn’t a problem. Two isn’t a problem. You can keep saying oh one more won’t be a problem until at some point it is.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#12

Post by downer59 »

justinator wrote: post #7
downer59 wrote: post #4

can cause erosion and damage ecosystems Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. If anything, it's an argument for the sake of arguing. It's almost perfectly illustrative of the perils of trying to get humans to cooperate and agree at all. First of all, you have brick buildings. Second of all, you have open pit mining. Third, you have mountaintop re…

> Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. I guess it should say, "locally". I don't disagree there's far worse things damaging the ecosystems of the world, but if there's a trail, and people keep hiking off trail to make rock stacks, that area will get damaged, locally . It's like if someone built a path through your backyard. Great, there's a path…

Yes. Yes they will. They will shrug. The local authorities will shrug at you. All the time.

They will tell you to deal with it, and pay for your own fence. In fact, they'd be more likely to intervene, if you build a fence that's too big. A fence made out of stones, even. Stacking too many stones to make an excessively large fence, to prevent people from stacking stones.

Imagine.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#13

Post by dmckeon »

On a spectrum of: private land, public land, national park; stones stacking seems: reasonable, regrettable, deeply thoughtless. If one cannot visit a park without visibly changing the landscape, one should simply not enter a park.

Examining this activity without considering the location is simply false equivalence. Any vandalism in a national park, or any nearly untrammeled area of similar protectable value is not defendable. Also, get off our lawn.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#14

Post by downer59 »

froindt wrote: post #10
downer59 wrote: post #4

can cause erosion and damage ecosystems Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. If anything, it's an argument for the sake of arguing. It's almost perfectly illustrative of the perils of trying to get humans to cooperate and agree at all. First of all, you have brick buildings. Second of all, you have open pit mining. Third, you have mountaintop re…

>>can cause erosion and damage ecosystems >Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. It is causing noticeable impact though. I recently went to Iceland which has had rapid tourism growth since about 2008. There is a place along Ring Road (the road around the whole island) where long ago, a rock was placed on a stack for good luck in their travels. [1…

Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#15

Post by iratewizard »

s0rce wrote: post #3

My "rule" for these kinds of activities is to ask myself, if every visitor to the area did this would it cause a problem? If so, for the most part, I refrain from doing whatever the thing is. I think this applies well to the rock stacking. Unless you are marking an off trail route or a faint trail please don't stack rocks, its confusing or just vandalism.

You can easily take that to ad absurdum levels and every activity you do is destroying the world. There's a balance, and stone stacking happens to balance the line between posturing one's virtue and respecting an ecosystem.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#16

Post by gumby »

downer59 wrote: post #4

can cause erosion and damage ecosystems Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. If anything, it's an argument for the sake of arguing. It's almost perfectly illustrative of the perils of trying to get humans to cooperate and agree at all. First of all, you have brick buildings. Second of all, you have open pit mining. Third, you have mountaintop re…

Indeed, open pit mining does ruin the landscape, but we make a collective calculation that it's worth the cost in some locations‡, just as we designate other locations to be left as pristine as possible. In natural habitat let's make the impact as low as possible -- ideally leaving no trace.

‡ Almost nobody is at the extrema of "mine all the things!" or "do no mining at all" -- clearly some is needed -- so I consider that your position a straw man.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#17

Post by downer59 »

gumby wrote: post #16
downer59 wrote: post #4

can cause erosion and damage ecosystems Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. If anything, it's an argument for the sake of arguing. It's almost perfectly illustrative of the perils of trying to get humans to cooperate and agree at all. First of all, you have brick buildings. Second of all, you have open pit mining. Third, you have mountaintop re…

Indeed, open pit mining does ruin the landscape, but we make a collective calculation that it's worth the cost in some locations‡, just as we designate other locations to be left as pristine as possible. In natural habitat let's make the impact as low as possible -- ideally leaving no trace. ‡ Almost nobody is at the extrema of "mine all the things!" or "do no mining at all" -- clearly some is needed -- so I consider…

My new year's resolution for 2019: stack lots of stones everywhere I go. At all times.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#18

Post by AnonymousRider »

With so many real problems in National Parks (including the ASTOUNDING number of mysterious disappearances of park visitors) I find this article a generic case of pearl-clutching stupidity. Humans have been stacking stones atop one another since at least 12,000 BC as in Gobekli Tepe in Turkey. We stack stones for our shelters, our fireplaces, and our workplaces. We stack stones for monuments. So now we are stacking stones for sheer aesthetic beauty. Good. Stack away with the knowledge that you are continuing a human tradition that has been going on for millennia.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#19

Post by iratewizard »

froindt wrote: post #10
downer59 wrote: post #4

can cause erosion and damage ecosystems Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. If anything, it's an argument for the sake of arguing. It's almost perfectly illustrative of the perils of trying to get humans to cooperate and agree at all. First of all, you have brick buildings. Second of all, you have open pit mining. Third, you have mountaintop re…

>>can cause erosion and damage ecosystems >Oh please. This is so far from an actual concern that I struggle to summon the energy to even shrug about it. It is causing noticeable impact though. I recently went to Iceland which has had rapid tourism growth since about 2008. There is a place along Ring Road (the road around the whole island) where long ago, a rock was placed on a stack for good luck in their travels. [1…

Iceland has a population of 300k and brought in more than 2m visitors last year. 10% of its GDP and 30% of export revenue. The vast majority of tourists in Iceland are very respectful, but Iceland's hasty decision to bootstrap its economy after 2008 with tourism despite a lack of infrastructure has its costs. The way I see it, Iceland is lucky to have attracted so many higher quality guests.

Re: People Are Stacking Too Many Stones

#20

Post by istjohn »

This may be a stupid question, but what exactly is the concern with erosion in mountainous terrain? I just don't understand what's at stake. Mountains erode. Why should we worry if human activity hastens the process a little? I'm asking in earnest. What am I missing?
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