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BitChute Suspended By Patreon

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Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#131

Post by wpietri »

jim-jim-jim wrote: post #39
notafraudster wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitChute is a YouTube replacement made for people who are "Very Worried About YouTube's Censorship". It uses WebTorrent for distribution to solve the upfront server costs of running a video service. Cute idea. You might imagine that with how endemic some people allege YouTube's censorship is, there would be a variety of interesting and censored content on BitChute. Which is why when you check the front page you get a…

That's the weird thing about free speech. Any community explicitly built upon it tends to exclusively attract those in _immediate_ need of it: conspiracy theorists and racists for the most part. There's still a (naive?) liberal side to me that thinks free expression, even of profoundly stupid ideas, might be a net good for society, but I don't want to be a part of a community that is innundated with nasty weirdos who…

It's a good point, although I think it's more about people waving the banner of free speech. As the variety of material available shows, we live in the best era in history for free speech. But it's not like people need to talk about that; they just talk about what they want.

Those banned from one distributor or another will of course wave the banner of free speech, because that sounds much nicer than, "Why won't people just leave me alone to organize purging society of all the Jews?" But it's not like the government is suppressing them; it's just that distributors have decided that they don't want to associate with a very small number of people. And that banner-waving has always struck me as a bit false; it's not like, e.g., Nazis are known for their tolerance of dissent, so I have to suspect that their fondness of "free speech" would evaporate the moment they had any real power.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#132

Post by claudiawerner »

phire wrote: post #58
AnaniasAnanas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a far-right reddit clone I was under the impression that voat was created due to censorship that reddit applied on all kinds of things, including anime porn for example. Not exclusively for far-right content. I certainly do not doubt that most of bitchute's or voat's users are far-right however. It only makes sense that the groups that are censored from other platforms move to censorship-free* alternatives. That be…

Reddit only banned anime porn that depicted characters under the age of 18. Regular anime porn is very much still there. There was a lot of scaremongering around the time that voat was launched, the "under 18" part was often left off when people were using that ban in an argument.

Let us argue the point including the "under 18" part, then. If it was legally an issue I can understand the ban. Otherwise I see little justification in the decision.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#133

Post by DarthTetanus »

8nd9rfi wrote: post #86
notahacker wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First they came for the Gab, and... I was actually pretty pleased because I didn't think the sort of web host that would stand behind forums run by the sort of people that gloated about how many hits their association with a synagogue shooting brought them were actually potential allies in fighting fascism... Bitchute isn't the home of people posting Trump critiques. It's the home of people explaining why all critici…

It's ironic that you are alluding to the quote by pastor Martin Niemöller that was making a point completely opposite to yours. Free speech is not about protecting popular opinions. I cannot believe how many comments hostile to free speech are on this thread. It's almost like people are begging for oppression.

[flagged]

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#134

Post by pbiggar »

jim-jim-jim wrote: post #91
pbiggar wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's still a (naive?) liberal side to me that thinks free expression, even of profoundly stupid ideas, might be a net good for society, Perhaps because the videos that get censored are only shitty to people who aren't you?

You're right about that. It's easy to think in terms of broad morals when you're not a target. It's also why I don't buy liberalism even though I'm defending a liberal practice in this specific instance. I want to say that it's rooted in practicality rather than idealism. I'm uncomfortable with for-profit entities being arbitrators of acceptable content, because various "divisive" or "extreme" viewpoints outside of r…

It seems reasonable to judge for-profit entities by what they allow on their platform. Certainly this has downsides - the "free the nipple" would agree with your position on this.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#135

Post by apostacy »

spookthesunset wrote: post #98
CM30 wrote: post #6

This is a great example of how 'just set up your own platform' may not be the best solution to issues of censorship and what not. Because if you do, then the platforms you need for things like payment processing are also likely to ban your service for much the same reasons as before, and neutral alternatives to them are few and far between. Still, I guess this does provide a good use case for cryptocurrencies and wha…

> censorship Except in this case it isn't censorship. Nobody can be forced to do business with BitChute if they don't want to. That is just as much of a right as anything else. BitChute is still more than able to host all the trash it wants. They will just have to find another payment provider. And they do exist. I mean, porn sites manage to figure out how to collect payment. It's expensive as hell because people con…

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Unless we live in a 100% free market, then what you are saying is totally invalid. We actually ARE forced to use the established banks and payment processors, we have no choice. The government provides all sorts of privileges and protections to them that make it impossible to just build your own.

When the government strips payment processors of all of their privileges, and when the Communications Decency Act no longer protects media companies masquerading as communications platforms (eg Twitter, YouTube and Facebook), then and only then will your assertions begin to make any sense.

Unless you are trying to send money to ISIS, then payment processors should be obligated to support you.

And indeed, payment processors and banks are far more worried about you donating money to people who's politics they disagree with than actual violent terrorists or child pornographers.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#136

Post by apostacy »

wpietri wrote: post #123
spookthesunset wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> censorship Except in this case it isn't censorship. Nobody can be forced to do business with BitChute if they don't want to. That is just as much of a right as anything else. BitChute is still more than able to host all the trash it wants. They will just have to find another payment provider. And they do exist. I mean, porn sites manage to figure out how to collect payment. It's expensive as hell because people con…

Exactly. Somebody's freedom of speech does not override a service provider freedom of association. Freedom of speech is not a right to distribution and payment.

These are not merely service providers. They are de-facto utilities. Just because Verizon does not like your politics, does not mean they can cut you off from their services. Same with Wells Fargo denying you a checking account (although they certainly did try in the past, if they thought you were a labor organizer).

Patreon, and other payment processors (like Stripe.com) are having their arms twisted from the highest levels by Visa and Mastercard.

Think for a moment if it would be ok with you if Visa and Mastercard were doing this because they wanted to silence people who advocated for women's rights. Would you still be so libertarian about it?

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#137

Post by apostacy »

interesthrow2 wrote: post #35
CM30 wrote: post #6

This is a great example of how 'just set up your own platform' may not be the best solution to issues of censorship and what not. Because if you do, then the platforms you need for things like payment processing are also likely to ban your service for much the same reasons as before, and neutral alternatives to them are few and far between. Still, I guess this does provide a good use case for cryptocurrencies and wha…

> This is a great example of how 'just set up your own platform' may not be the best solution to issues of censorship and what not. It's more like "don't depends on Silicon valley's ecosystem" these days. Because all these tech corporations went crazy since Trump got elected and clearly decided they'll use their audience and market shares for political goals... which they have all the rights to do by the way, and it'…

It's a bit more than that. The top decision makers at Visa and Mastercard have been threatening anyone who does business with certain people. That's where this is coming from.

And if you aren't terrified of that you damn well should be.

Ironically I think that Trump would LOVE to deploy this against his enemies. Perhaps he will at some point.

That's why we need to strengthen political and financial "common carriage".

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#138

Post by javagram »

spookthesunset wrote: post #98
CM30 wrote: post #6

This is a great example of how 'just set up your own platform' may not be the best solution to issues of censorship and what not. Because if you do, then the platforms you need for things like payment processing are also likely to ban your service for much the same reasons as before, and neutral alternatives to them are few and far between. Still, I guess this does provide a good use case for cryptocurrencies and wha…

> censorship Except in this case it isn't censorship. Nobody can be forced to do business with BitChute if they don't want to. That is just as much of a right as anything else. BitChute is still more than able to host all the trash it wants. They will just have to find another payment provider. And they do exist. I mean, porn sites manage to figure out how to collect payment. It's expensive as hell because people con…

> Even then they could just get a PO box and have people mail in checks or hell, even cash

Would it be okay for the US postal service to deplatform them as well?

I’m always curious about this argument that “just mail it” because the freedom to send anything though the postal service has not always been some sacrosanct right (e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comstock_laws ). And in other countries that don’t have such a permissive First Amendment I imagine it may still be okay for the post office to censor mail.

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#139

Post by apostacy »

notahacker wrote: post #81
beginningguava wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what it is now you should be happy it exists, look at present day Turkey and 1960s Iran to see how fast freedoms can be stripped by changes in government. Tomorrow it could be leftists being censored. The Communist Control Act is still around in the US, just hasn't been enforced. There's effectively nothing to stop Trump from calling his enemies communists and throwing them in jail and with his stacked…

First they came for the Gab, and... I was actually pretty pleased because I didn't think the sort of web host that would stand behind forums run by the sort of people that gloated about how many hits their association with a synagogue shooting brought them were actually potential allies in fighting fascism... Bitchute isn't the home of people posting Trump critiques. It's the home of people explaining why all critici…

Twitter enshrines the most vile antisemitism out there[1]. Right after the Pittsburgh shooting, Twitter reviewed Farrakhan's comments where he called Jews "termites", and gave him the all clear.

What makes Twitter far worse than Gab is that Twitter actually took the time to have a human review it, and gave it the green light. Gab at least is not attempting to police its content. That makes Twitter much worse.

This is all hypocrisy. The "outrage" of Gab is completely fake. There is no legitimate argument against Gab that does not include Twitter.

[1]: https://www.ajc.com/news/national/twitter-won-suspend-louis-...

Re: BitChute Suspended By Patreon

#140

Post by apostacy »

spookthesunset wrote: post #113
8nd9rfi wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's ironic that you are alluding to the quote by pastor Martin Niemöller that was making a point completely opposite to yours. Free speech is not about protecting popular opinions. I cannot believe how many comments hostile to free speech are on this thread. It's almost like people are begging for oppression.

> I cannot believe how many comments hostile to free speech are on this thread It's almost like what is being discussed has nothing to do with free speech. BitChute didn't have its free speech rights harmed in any way. No jack booted government thugs pointed their guns at the owners faces and told them to unplug from the internet. All that happened is their current payment provider determined that their business rela…

> It's almost like what is being discussed has nothing to do with free speech. BitChute didn't have its free speech rights harmed in any way. No jack booted government thugs pointed their guns at the owners faces and told them to unplug from the internet.

Jack booted thugs most certainly will point guns at anyone who tries setting up a payment processing system to compete with the company that blocked them.

> All that happened is their current payment provider determined that their business relationship wasn't profitable and terminated the business relationship. BitChute is free to find another way to seek payment.

BitChute is NOT free to find another way to seek payment, because of a state-enforced monopoly on the payment market.

It would be like if your water company decided to cut off water to your house, to compel you to stop speaking, at the behest of activists. Sure, you're "free" to carry buckets of fresh water to your house, I suppose.

No, this is not some business decision, this is systematic economic pressure intended to coerce someone into silence. And frankly I think it is good grounds for a RICO case.

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