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Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

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Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#211

Post by AnthonyMouse »

PyroLagus wrote: post #204
kingofhdds wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the "big problem" of Windows stemmed exactly from possibility to install third-party apps, and not from poor security defaults which let those apps to mangle everything around without asking for permission, and poor architectural decisions which let some programs to install themselves (aka viruses). Nowadays Windows is much better with this staff than it's used to be, in spite of the fact that (contrary…

To be fair, Linux and friends aren't much better in that regard. Permission management for locally running programs is pretty much poor by default in all major operating systems. SELinux and AppArmor for Linux improve on the situation, but they're usually not the default unless you're using Fedora, and even there, it might need some extra configuration. I'm looking forward to capability-based systems with microkernel…

> To be fair, Linux and friends aren't much better in that regard.

Linux gets there a different way. The standard way to install applications is from the package manager and essentially all of the applications in there are trustworthy (because they're all open source and if they did anything seriously user-hostile, someone would fork it and that version would be the one in the package manager). Meanwhile the package managers do actually add nearly everything that isn't user-hostile, so the need to install anything from another source, while still possible, is rare enough that most people never have to do it.

And binaries downloaded via web browser don't even have the execute bit set by default. You can still do it, but you have to know how, and the people who know enough to know how to do it generally know enough to be suspicious when doing it.

And even then, things typically run as the user rather than root/administrator, so they can't alter the system or anything other than that one user's (presumably backed up) home directory.

Having even more granular permission would be even better, but restricting the harm to one home directory of one user and only in cases of users who are at the same time knowledgeable and stupid has already handled basically the entire problem.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#212

Post by cipherzero »

_em6m wrote: post #169
dreamdu5t wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paywalls aren’t enshrined by any law. You’re misinformed. the web is public, despite SV’s best attempts to subvert and exploit that. If you don’t want someone accessing information don’t publish it as a website that anyone can access.

Okey. So how about respecting the right of those who use paywalls to get money for the content they create? Just because something is on the internet doesn't give you the holly right of getting it for free.

In my opinion, the problem is because content owners/producers want a double standard. They want people to pay for access but they also want there content indexed so people can find it. So if this tool makes it so that the site treats me as an indexer than so what?

Have you ever been in a conversation where someone talks about something and you said “hey I read this cool article on that, let me send it to you.” If so, guess what - you were the search engine for that conversation. Should you then have access to view the non-paywalled content?

So yeah, I have no issue with this add on. If they didn’t want the double standard - to allow free access for some and not others - it is easily possible and in their full control to prevent add ons like these (think of any admin site or service for which you have to login before seeing/do anything.)

Content producers have a choice and they’re choosing to be bullies. I have no moral or ethical qualms when it comes to dealing with bullies or double standards.

Just my two cents.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#213

Post by AnaniasAnanas »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #37
JohnStrangeII wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a free speech issue at all, nor are the EU regulations free speech issues. The problem with these laws and their interpretation is that they target the wrong organizations and technologies. If a website is illegal, it needs to be taken down by police. Instead, idiot judges rule that certain DNS entries should be blocked. If you shouldn't be allowed to read some pay-walled journal, then the publisher has t…

“Just take down the website” is disingenuous. You, and I, and those idiot judges all know it’s often much harder, and sometimes impossible, to get to the website owners. “Abolish all copyright” is a legitimate opinion. It’s wrong,of course. But it’s possible to discuss it. Don’t demean yourself and others by starting discussions with disingenuous arguments.

> It’s wrong,of course

Stating your personal opinions as facts and claiming that everyone who disagrees with you is wrong is at best annoying and disrespectful.

Edit: *seems at best annoying and disrespectful to me. Apologies for the confusion.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#214

Post by fredsanford »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #121
nextgens wrote: post #114

I am the author of that add-on ... what would you do in my shoes ? - provide an XPI (that will only benefit the few since the side-loading process is made awkwarder at every point release) ? - fight it ? If so, on what grounds and how ? - something else ?

Stop enabling the destruction of journalism? That's an entirely serious suggestion. I'm not arguing that what you're doing is illegal. I have all sorts of qualms with copyright and its enforcement myself. If I were "copyright czar", movies would get three years, and newspapers maybe a week. But if we wish for copyright-holders to respect the rights of internet users, it would seem to be a winning proposition to maybe…

[flagged]

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#215

Post by cipherzero »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #121
nextgens wrote: post #114

I am the author of that add-on ... what would you do in my shoes ? - provide an XPI (that will only benefit the few since the side-loading process is made awkwarder at every point release) ? - fight it ? If so, on what grounds and how ? - something else ?

Stop enabling the destruction of journalism? That's an entirely serious suggestion. I'm not arguing that what you're doing is illegal. I have all sorts of qualms with copyright and its enforcement myself. If I were "copyright czar", movies would get three years, and newspapers maybe a week. But if we wish for copyright-holders to respect the rights of internet users, it would seem to be a winning proposition to maybe…

I’ve responded elsewhere in this thread but I’d like to discuss the double standard being applied.

Have you ever been in a conversation where someone talks about something and you said “hey I read this cool article on that, let me send it to you?” If so, guess what - you were the search engine for that conversation. Should you then have access to view the non-paywalled content?

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#216

Post by sparkie »

bovermyer wrote: post #100

Paywalls exist as a solution to the problem of "how do journalists and other content producers get paid for their work?" Anti-paywall addons are an attempt to get something that isn't intended to be free for free. Ignoring the legality of this for a moment, let's consider: is this moral?

Is it moral for content producers to sell users web browsing habits to advertisers without their explicit consent?

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#217

Post by austincheney »

_em6m wrote: post #138
nextgens wrote: post #114

I am the author of that add-on ... what would you do in my shoes ? - provide an XPI (that will only benefit the few since the side-loading process is made awkwarder at every point release) ? - fight it ? If so, on what grounds and how ? - something else ?

How about stop the development? The fact that you can break the paywall (easily) doesn't give you the right to do it. Current laws (in that country) state that it's ilegal, so why do you insist in doing it?

> The fact that you can break the paywall (easily) doesn't give you the right to do it.

I would argue, from both legal and technology perspectives, the ability to easily break a paywall provides you the right to do so.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#218

Post by IAmEveryone »

realthing wrote: post #48
JohnStrangeII wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a free speech issue at all, nor are the EU regulations free speech issues. The problem with these laws and their interpretation is that they target the wrong organizations and technologies. If a website is illegal, it needs to be taken down by police. Instead, idiot judges rule that certain DNS entries should be blocked. If you shouldn't be allowed to read some pay-walled journal, then the publisher has t…

Yes, but you are missing my point. Link tax is not censorship in and of itself, but it does hinder the sharing of information, the cornerstone of the "information highway". Removing a plugin, or any tooling for that matter, is akin to censorship, in that it silences a computational action. Someones voice may not have been censored, but their tooling was removed by force by the powers that be.

> it silences a computational action

HN generally does not like comedy accounts...

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#219

Post by [deleted] »

shiado wrote: post #205
Confusion wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rename the plugin and change the description. The message from Mozilla states that the problem is the intent of the plugin. The technological measures it actually takes are not illegal per sé, but are illegal when used to circumvent paywalls (of course IANAL). If you present this as a plug-in that allows you to view websites as the Google bot views them, for educational and debugging purposes, there is no problem. Yo…

This is the best idea here. What's funny is that the news sites in their typical technical incompetence are actually way far behind in this battle. Spoofing user agent does not work anymore on most 'techy' sites who have quality software engineering. Analyzing user agent is preschool tier blocking these days. If the news sites want to get serious they need to use browser fingerprinting to detect human behavior and on…

[deleted]

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#220

Post by scarface74 »

betterunix2 wrote: post #207
scarface74 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So with copyright being removed, are you okay with companies using GPL code in their proprietary closed sourced software? The GPL is only protected by copyright laws.

Yes, I am fine with that tradeoff, because on net society would come out ahead.

So if you are concerned with copyright being removed because you think it will increase the freedom of information, how will that not do just the opposite when companies can take open source code and lock it down?

So in this hypothetical future world, not only will their not be a financial motive for people to create works since anything they create can be freely copied, there will also not be an altruistic motive for people to give back to the community through open source knowing that a for profit company can build on top of the work they did and not give back to the community.

This seems like a lose lose.

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