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How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

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Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#51

Post by stareatgoats »

Falling3 wrote: post #42
stareatgoats wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Stanford data set suffers from the same problems as the one in discussion: It opens up for correlating 'race' with foul behavior. Of course there may be such a correlation per se, just as there may be a correlation between heavy drinkers/medication abusers and excessive use of force. The problem with isolating the 'race' factor is that it promotes race hate, which is just stupid, when there are factors that are a…

>The problem with isolating the 'race' factor is that it promotes race hate How is your stance any different from the common and absurd refrain that discussing racism is racist? We can't discuss racism without looking at race.

I'm not familiar with that refrain, and agree it sounds absurd. FWIW I really do believe we need to discuss racism, however not with racist arguments.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#52

Post by distant_hat »

hanniabu wrote: post #38
danso wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The various local branches of the ACLU have been doing some impressive data projects. - NYCLU won a lawsuit that forced the NYPD to release a database of their stop-and-frisk activity. The analysis of the data -- which showed a huge racial disparity in who was targeted -- was instrumental in winning a court order to reform the practice. In 2011, the NYPD committed 685K stop-and-frisks. In 2017, they did 10K. [0] The…

> In 2011, the NYPD committed 685K stop-and-frisks. In 2017, they did 10K. Am I wrong to read this as "if we can't be racist about it we're just not going to do it as much"

There'd be a massive backlash if they randomly started frisking white officegoers and the like.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#54

Post by adjkant »

rsync wrote: post #53

I wonder if this database contains height of officer ? I have this pet theory ...

Curious why this is downvoted as while I think there are probably much larger factors, the physical size of an officer compared to their use of force is certainly something that would make logical sense to correlate somehow given how society views size and power. If we're going to do a full analysis, why not include it? It could help clarify what psychological factors (which can be affected by how people treat you, which could be affected by height) cause or prevent the use of unnecessary force.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#56

Post by stareatgoats »

CptFribble wrote: post #26
stareatgoats wrote: post #4

A database that lists the officers responsible for force by name, frequency and race. Resulting in neat graphs that strongly suggests that police violence is caused by two factors: individuals and/or race. Police brutality is a serious problem and data like this should be available, but several things here are (maybe intentionally) provocative: 1. Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ulti…

> Race is a social construct [...] that does not carry any explanatory meaning. It may be a social construct, but that doesn't mean it's irrelevant. Bias is real. Race-based bias is real. People make decisions based on conscious and unconscious thoughts and beliefs about race. This has been demonstrated through numerous behavioral studies. What if the real reasons for a police departments behavior involve internally…

No, you are confusing race with racism:

> In that case, race is very relevant to the "real reasons for a problem."

I'm sure you mean that racism is very relevant etc.

> In 2018, we can't discuss real reasons for police violence without race. In many cases, it is the reason.

Same here, you can't reasonably mean that race "is" the reason for police violence, you (most probably) meant that racism is the reason for police brutality.

This kind of mixing up of the concepts is precisely what I object to.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#57

Post by forapurpose »

danso wrote: post #27

If this topic interests you, worth pointing out some similar projects, such as the Citizens Police Data Project of Chicago, which currently has 247K police complaints (and puts the code/data on Github) [0]. Note that it's about complaints -- not about all use of force, as in the NJ database. It also covers a single agency -- the Chicago PD. Ostensibly, the Chicago PD has put in the work to create a centralized databa…

Thanks. I'll add the Washington Post's database of police shootings throughout the U.S.:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/national/police...

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#59

Post by perfmode »

stareatgoats wrote: post #39
perfmode wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your pseudoscientific dismissal of racist policing makes me ashamed to be a part of this community. The fact remains: the patterns of violence perpetrated by police indicate a distinct lack of regard for the value of the lives of people who are black. It’s incredible how easily a police officer will beat, shoot, or kill a person of color. And as a person of color myself, I find it alarming and gross when I read comme…

> Your pseudoscientific dismissal of racist policing Honest question: where did I dismiss racist policing, not to mention pseudoscientifically? I really can't find it. For the record, I agree with all your statements from "The fact remains" and forward up until the last sentence. To clarify FWIW: the problem is not race, it is racism . I find it problematic that the way this database is presented points rather to the…

Observe the sheer number of sound rebuttals to your statements.

The variety and depth of your identified misconceptions should compel you to question the body of axioms and ideas on top of which you confidently espouse such demonstrably problematic arguments.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#60

Post by twunde »

hanniabu wrote: post #38
danso wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The various local branches of the ACLU have been doing some impressive data projects. - NYCLU won a lawsuit that forced the NYPD to release a database of their stop-and-frisk activity. The analysis of the data -- which showed a huge racial disparity in who was targeted -- was instrumental in winning a court order to reform the practice. In 2011, the NYPD committed 685K stop-and-frisks. In 2017, they did 10K. [0] The…

> In 2011, the NYPD committed 685K stop-and-frisks. In 2017, they did 10K. Am I wrong to read this as "if we can't be racist about it we're just not going to do it as much"

Only partially. The NYPD was essentially forced by lawsuits and political pressure to shut down stop and frisk. The ACLU lawsuit that parent mentioned, required that police have a valid reason to stop and frisk someone in advance. Think of this as having a business justification for every expense at a company that scrutinizes these requests. Subsequent lawsuits shut down the ability to stop and frisk individuals coming and going from public housing[0]. On top of this, the new NYC mayor, De Blasio, wanted to shut down stop and frisk altogether (one of his major campaign planks).

0: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/nyregion/new-york-police-... for more information

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