Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons • Hacker News Board

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#141

Post by nkrisc » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #18

decasteve wrote: post #5

This breaks the social contract of the web. If you publish on the web (over HTTP) using HTML (with or without css+js) then you respect the concept of a User-Agent that renders the content on behalf of the user. If you wish to get around this then create another file format and protocol and application/plugin to do so — one that enforces the DRM for the owner. Don’t take agency away from User-Agent.

There’s also a social contract about respect for the law. It’s arguably much older. It involves aspects like “following the spirit of the law”. Also “technical ability is not the same as permission”. It’s why the old shopkeeper’s waning ability to see is no license for you from the produce displayed outside. (This is mostly to show that I, too, can argue with invented “contracts”).

If I notice the shopkeeper gives discounts to people wearing hats, is it wrong for me to come back wearing a hat for the discount? If I notice the WSJ sends different content to different user-agents, is it wrong of me to change my user-agent?

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#142

Post by Veen » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #133

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop enabling the destruction of journalism? That's an entirely serious suggestion. I'm not arguing that what you're doing is illegal. I have all sorts of qualms with copyright and its enforcement myself. If I were "copyright czar", movies would get three years, and newspapers maybe a week. But if we wish for copyright-holders to respect the rights of internet users, it would seem to be a winning proposition to maybe…

Chabge is hard. You can fight it or you can embrace it. Sometimes embracing change requires letting go.

Harmful changes can and should be fought. Journalism plays a vital role in democracies. Journalism is expensive. Someone needs to pay for it.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#143

Post by dao- » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #125

nextgens wrote: post #114

I am the author of that add-on ... what would you do in my shoes ? - provide an XPI (that will only benefit the few since the side-loading process is made awkwarder at every point release) ? - fight it ? If so, on what grounds and how ? - something else ?

Rename the plugin and change the description. The message from Mozilla states that the problem is the intent of the plugin. The technological measures it actually takes are not illegal per sé, but are illegal when used to circumvent paywalls (of course IANAL). If you present this as a plug-in that allows you to view websites as the Google bot views them, for educational and debugging purposes, there is no problem. Yo…

Your first paragraph reads a bit crazy and I imagine that's why you're being downvoted, but as you're expanding your idea in the second paragraph I think you might have a point.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#144

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

liftbigweights wrote: post #136

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop enabling the destruction of journalism? That's an entirely serious suggestion. I'm not arguing that what you're doing is illegal. I have all sorts of qualms with copyright and its enforcement myself. If I were "copyright czar", movies would get three years, and newspapers maybe a week. But if we wish for copyright-holders to respect the rights of internet users, it would seem to be a winning proposition to maybe…

[dead]

> Journalism has never been one of the foundation of democratic societies.

So I'm assuming the news of what the people you voted for get to you via... diffusion?

> . The united states and democracy itself existed far before journalist.

You should sue your school for the permanent damage they did. Both in terms of grammar as well as history.

In any case: if journalism is so useless, why are you jumping through hoops to read it?

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#145

Post by Veen » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #130

shaki-dora wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They mostly just want to survive... But in this case, they specifically want to allow you read maybe a dozen articles per month for free, but also (see above) to eat.

Criminals also just want to survive. That doesn't make their immoral business model legitimate.

Criminals don't perform a useful service for society. Journalists do. Journalism is flawed, but flawed journalism is better than no journalism.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#146

Post by the8472 » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

dao- wrote: post #135

kgwxd wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raly all your users to bug Mozilla about unbreaking side-loading. If addons really isnt supposed be a walled garden as they claim, they should be willing to open a discussion with the community about how to open things up so we can avoid legal bullying like this.

It's not gonna happen. Firefox would be dead by now if it still allowed bad or incompetent actors to make Firefox unusable (as in slow, unstable, and btw insecure), because users wouldn't keep up with that for too long. They'd just use another browser. This may be okay with you for now because you know how to protect yourself against malware, but in the long run Mozilla needs market share to stay relevant and be able…

That's like saying windows is dead in the water because it gives the user the ability to install applications not approved by microsoft.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#147

Post by zaarn » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #40

Krasnol wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird, I have 63.0.3 as far as I see the normal version and had no problem downloading and with that updating the November version of "bypass-paywalls" which was also affected from the releases page here: https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-firefox/releas...

That means it's signed with Mozilla's signature. Actually, I think extensions can maybe be signed by Mozilla even if they're not on addons.mozilla.org.

Addons can be unlisted, ie, they don't show up on a.m.o but you can download and install them as normal.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#148

Post by naner » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

nextgens wrote: post #114

I am the author of that add-on ... what would you do in my shoes ? - provide an XPI (that will only benefit the few since the side-loading process is made awkwarder at every point release) ? - fight it ? If so, on what grounds and how ? - something else ?

I'd just move on. To be honest sites with those types of paywalls should not be indexed. The loophole you are taking advantage of here is a bait and switch by these sites. They want the search traffic but don't want public access. Most of us have already adapted, however, and avoid these sites or pay for them.

Your plugin title blatantly describes that you're avoiding paying for something they are charging for so even though it may not be illegal it's not something I'd waste energy fighting for.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#149

Post by the8472 » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #145

tomp wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criminals also just want to survive. That doesn't make their immoral business model legitimate.

Criminals don't perform a useful service for society. Journalists do. Journalism is flawed, but flawed journalism is better than no journalism.

That's assuming that laws are the perfect arbiter of what is useful and what is not. Some useful and moral activities are or used to be criminal acts.

Re: Mozilla hit with takedown request for anti-paywall addons

#150

Post by dao- » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

the8472 wrote: post #146

dao- wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not gonna happen. Firefox would be dead by now if it still allowed bad or incompetent actors to make Firefox unusable (as in slow, unstable, and btw insecure), because users wouldn't keep up with that for too long. They'd just use another browser. This may be okay with you for now because you know how to protect yourself against malware, but in the long run Mozilla needs market share to stay relevant and be able…

That's like saying windows is dead in the water because it gives the user the ability to install applications not approved by microsoft.

Well, it's actually a been big problem for Windows, and installing unsigned software on Windows is harder than it used to be. Also, luckily for Microsoft, installing another OS is harder than using another browser. (I say using, not installing, because there's always another browser already installed on most OSes.)