Earlier quoted context omitted.
there are some features in pro version, but yeah its mostly open source
Afaik, The Pro version is open source as well, it's just not usable without a key.
Moving to GitLab
41–50 of 61 posts
Re: Moving to GitLab
#42A small note: what's the difference between GitLab, GitHub etc? Are they companies with a substantially identical target: making money? Does they offer storage on their own server (or even worse others servers in a chain)? So why the hell instead of moving from a company to another ANY FOSS dev do not came back to classic ML (mirrored offline in personal maildir) and use hosting, multiple if possible, only as a mean…
Classic ML sucks, and gitlab is opensource that can be selfhosted. The world evolved and offers now better environments than 20 years ago. No reason to stay behind.
Could you elaborate on why that is? The git and linux kernel projects have been using this workflow for decades and it works very well for them.
> The world evolved and offers now better environments than 20 years ago.
I think that's largely subjective. I have experience reviewing code via email and via a Github Enterprise instance.
The Github based review requires far more scrolling and makes it difficult to find comments that were made and how they were resolved. Plus, it makes the implicit assumption that a comment was resolved if the line commented on was changed in any way regardless of whether or not the change is related to the comment made. When that happens, it collapses the comment thread and requires that I expand them to find out what I commented on and determine whether it was addressed by going to another tab to read through the entire diff, find the approximate location of the line I commented on and see if it was changed as I expected.
With the email based workflow, my email client has a built in index of all the comments made on a patch set threaded by commit that I can click on and I can quickly find the comments I made and any responses to them (and whether or not I've already read them). I can easily get different versions of the patch set and run a diff between them to see what changed (either on the entire diff or on each individual commit).
> The world evolved and offers now better environments than 20 years ago. No reason to stay behind.
I believe that if something should be considered an improvement, then it should have all the capabilities of the previous version and introduce new features that were not possible to accomplish in the previous version. It shouldn't make things that were easy to do in the previous version more difficult or impossible to do.
Re: Moving to GitLab
#43A small note: what's the difference between GitLab, GitHub etc? Are they companies with a substantially identical target: making money? Does they offer storage on their own server (or even worse others servers in a chain)? So why the hell instead of moving from a company to another ANY FOSS dev do not came back to classic ML (mirrored offline in personal maildir) and use hosting, multiple if possible, only as a mean…
The reason people put their code online is because it is a convenient way to host it, and often platforms like these have some ancillary tools that make the code easy to work with.
Re: Moving to GitLab
#44TLDR; Why GitLab instead of GitHub? From their discussion group thread: - Good multi-platform hosted CI or at least workable integration with other (existing) CI solutions - Hosted review tool that we don't have to maintain ourselves (though a little bit less good than Phabricator, allegedly) - familiar GitHub-like workflow with no requirement to install extra software locally - Reuse of GitHub credentials - Realisti…
What is wrong with Travis compared to GL's default CI?
Re: Moving to GitLab
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Classic ML sucks, and gitlab is opensource that can be selfhosted. The world evolved and offers now better environments than 20 years ago. No reason to stay behind.
> Classic ML sucks Could you elaborate on why that is? The git and linux kernel projects have been using this workflow for decades and it works very well for them. > The world evolved and offers now better environments than 20 years ago. I think that's largely subjective. I have experience reviewing code via email and via a Github Enterprise instance. The Github based review requires far more scrolling and makes it d…
> With the email based workflow, my email client has a built in index of all the comments made[...]
The reason for why E-Mail based workflows like those used by Linux and Git didn't win over "just host on Git(Hub|Lab)" is because this requires a lot of setup & technical expertise from your contributors that just using a web UI gives you out of the box.
Right off the bat you need to have been subscribed to the list for a significant amount of time to do what you're describing, or if you're lucky (e.g. in the case of the Git project) use some E-Mail archive[1]. You're already looking at maybe a week of setup time for someone who's never used E-Mail in this way (which applies for most devs these days) just to get to the point you'd get in 10 seconds with a search box on GitHub or GitLab.
Does it pay off in a lot of ways? Sure, but at the cost of losing a lot of potential contributors. It's not a big deal for projects like linux.git or git.git whose contributors are by definition at the tail end of the competency curve when it comes being comfortable with setting up this sort of thing, but good luck running e.g. some popular WordPress plugin this way.
Re: Moving to GitLab
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Classic ML sucks Could you elaborate on why that is? The git and linux kernel projects have been using this workflow for decades and it works very well for them. > The world evolved and offers now better environments than 20 years ago. I think that's largely subjective. I have experience reviewing code via email and via a Github Enterprise instance. The Github based review requires far more scrolling and makes it d…
Not the GP, but I contribute to the Git project. I think your some of your critique of GitHub Enterprise is correct (although don't you need to also "resolve discussion" if the lines change, or is that just GitLab?), just commenting on the "why not ML" aspect of this. > With the email based workflow, my email client has a built in index of all the comments made[...] The reason for why E-Mail based workflows like thos…
I believe Github recently deployed a feature to do just that, but that hasn't made it over to the enterprise version. In either case, it's something that's been a source of problems for quite a few years.
> Right off the bat you need to have been subscribed to the list for a significant amount of time to do what you're describing
That's one inherent limitation with email lists. Fortunately, both public-inbox and gmane provide a NNTP gateway to allow for access to list archives with an interface that's, for all practical purposes, identical to email.
As an aside, I've always wondered why open source projects like git and linux never adopted NNTP (not necessarily on usenet) as a primary form of communication (and and email CC contributers of code that you're changing) instead of using an email list.
> this requires a lot of setup & technical expertise from your contributors [...] You're already looking at maybe a week of setup time
I simply don't see how it requires significant expertise or a week to set up. Using a client like Thunderbird for reading the list (or NNTP gateway) doesn't take that much to set up (other than entering the server information and credentials to send replies). Setting up one's git configuration for using git-send-email (to send patches) is only a one time thing as well and isn't any more complex.
Years ago, ISPs commonly provided help pages that gave the server information to set up your client to access one's email account hosted on the ISP and how to access the NNTP server to get on usenet. You didn't need significant technical expertise to follow the instructions on those pages and many non-technical people successfully configured their clients to receive/send their email and participate on usenet newsgroups.
Re: Moving to GitLab
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Classic ML sucks Could you elaborate on why that is? The git and linux kernel projects have been using this workflow for decades and it works very well for them. > The world evolved and offers now better environments than 20 years ago. I think that's largely subjective. I have experience reviewing code via email and via a Github Enterprise instance. The Github based review requires far more scrolling and makes it d…
Not the GP, but I contribute to the Git project. I think your some of your critique of GitHub Enterprise is correct (although don't you need to also "resolve discussion" if the lines change, or is that just GitLab?), just commenting on the "why not ML" aspect of this. > With the email based workflow, my email client has a built in index of all the comments made[...] The reason for why E-Mail based workflows like thos…
That's a reasoned recurring argument and my usual answer is: quality vs quantity. More in detail we are not talking about a hello world software for first years of high schools students but large and complex software; if casual contributors do not have a proper email setup or the knowledge to make it it means they probably do not have enough IT knowledge in general to be valuable contributors. Emails are the base of FOSS communication infrastructure together with nntp news, without them there is substantially no free software nor free "ecosystems" so...
However there is a point in criticize actual "sorry state" of email development. I know "bigs of IT" do non like mails because they are an open standard that guarantee no lock-in but we as free software users/devs should help newcomers to gain knowledge and tell actual students "go get mbsync/notmuch/emacs/custom scripts for refile/delete afew/IMAPFilter for autorefile, ..." does not help, offer per-coocked solutions does. Something is happening from fish to precooked zsh configs to {doom,prelude,spacemacs,...} emacs config etc but it's still not enough.
Re: Moving to GitLab
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not the GP, but I contribute to the Git project. I think your some of your critique of GitHub Enterprise is correct (although don't you need to also "resolve discussion" if the lines change, or is that just GitLab?), just commenting on the "why not ML" aspect of this. > With the email based workflow, my email client has a built in index of all the comments made[...] The reason for why E-Mail based workflows like thos…
> although don't you need to also "resolve discussion" if the lines change, or is that just GitLab? I believe Github recently deployed a feature to do just that, but that hasn't made it over to the enterprise version. In either case, it's something that's been a source of problems for quite a few years. > Right off the bat you need to have been subscribed to the list for a significant amount of time to do what you're…
I don't just mean the setup required to send a one-off patch. Obviously setting up some random E-Mail client with IMAP is easy. But the sort of setup required to get anything like feature parity with common operations in GitHub's or GitLab's interface.
E.g. when you open a Pull/Merge request on those sites. It's easy to apply & download the patch series locally to test it. For E-Mail client integration you need something that'll "git am" a range of messages. Likewise with "git push" to your topic branch updating the PR/MR. Sure you can do this all manually with git-format-patch and git-send-email, but having something that works smoothly takes a lot of work.
And nowadays the network effects of that setup don't make sense for most contributors, because so few projects still use E-Mail like this. There's a large long tail of contributors to these projects, e.g. the median for patches in git.git per contributor is 2.
Re: Moving to GitLab
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
> although don't you need to also "resolve discussion" if the lines change, or is that just GitLab? I believe Github recently deployed a feature to do just that, but that hasn't made it over to the enterprise version. In either case, it's something that's been a source of problems for quite a few years. > Right off the bat you need to have been subscribed to the list for a significant amount of time to do what you're…
> I simply don't see how it requires significant expertise or a week to set up[...] I don't just mean the setup required to send a one-off patch. Obviously setting up some random E-Mail client with IMAP is easy. But the sort of setup required to get anything like feature parity with common operations in GitHub's or GitLab's interface. E.g. when you open a Pull/Merge request on those sites. It's easy to apply & downlo…
That's a good point. Like git-am is the inverse of git-format-patch. Unfortunately, no program has been written as the corresponding inverse of git-send-email. If a program like that existed, then one could get feature parity.
At least with Thunderbird, one can highlight the messages one wants to save and save them to multiple files in a folder.
> Likewise with "git push" to your topic branch updating the PR/MR. Sure you can do this all manually with git-format-patch and git-send-email, but having something that works smoothly takes a lot of work.
Based on what I've read, people typically rebase their patch series and push up a new set of emails as a reply to the original patch series. In Github/Gitlab, people typically make an incremental commit and push it up.
But, if one wants to maintain a clean commit history for a given feature development branch before it's merged, one will have to rebase and apply those incremental commits to their corresponding base commit. That's trivial if the feature is implemented in a single commit, but a bit more complex if it's multiple commits. The former case has been addressed by Github with their squash before merge feature I believe. The latter case requires manual rebasing (which arguably is more more than just doing it locally before pushing up the next version of the patch set).
Re: Moving to GitLab
#50Gitlab seems to fit all the Open Source Project ideals and philosophy. They don't want the burden of managing a dozen difference software or services for their development, they want coding, not time messing with Ops. And it has to be Open Source and no lock it. And Gitlab could even host it for you with with out you having the hassle. Amazon, Google. One of them likely to acquire Gitlab. Strategically speaking both…
> Or there could be another slim possibility, Microsoft decide to Open Source Github Core Or there could be another slim possibility, Microsoft decide to acquire GitLab...