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How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

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Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#11
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ultimately might threaten their personal safety. As soon as: * The blue code of silence collapses. * Judges and politicians stop covering for cop brutality and protecting cop killers. * Police are more than half as likely to die on the job as a trash collectors. I'll maybe start to buy this line of reasoning. It's an insult to the memory of every unar…

> * Police are more than half as likely to die on the job as a trash collectors. How is this at all relevant to whether a police officer deserves privacy? Yes, their fatality rate is around half that of a trash collector. Since when was HN anti-privacy? You can use data like this to analyze and criticize the system , but I see no reason why the officers' identities would be helpful for any legitimate purpose, especia…

> How is this at all relevant to whether a police officer deserves privacy?

Who was debating whether police officers deserve privacy? That's a question for theologians. The debate was about whether the threat to police officers' safety was an important enough factor to the public to merit censoring their names from reports of their conduct.

If policework is currently less dangerous than trash collecting, that's an obvious argument against. I like the economic argument: if you prefer your violence anonymous, quit and find another job.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#12

A database that lists the officers responsible for force by name, frequency and race. Resulting in neat graphs that strongly suggests that police violence is caused by two factors: individuals and/or race. Police brutality is a serious problem and data like this should be available, but several things here are (maybe intentionally) provocative: 1. Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ulti…

Your pseudoscientific dismissal of racist policing makes me ashamed to be a part of this community.

The fact remains: the patterns of violence perpetrated by police indicate a distinct lack of regard for the value of the lives of people who are black.

It’s incredible how easily a police officer will beat, shoot, or kill a person of color.

And as a person of color myself, I find it alarming and gross when I read comments such as yours.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#13

A database that lists the officers responsible for force by name, frequency and race. Resulting in neat graphs that strongly suggests that police violence is caused by two factors: individuals and/or race. Police brutality is a serious problem and data like this should be available, but several things here are (maybe intentionally) provocative: 1. Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ulti…

thank you for spreading the truth no matter how unpopular it maybe

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#14

A database that lists the officers responsible for force by name, frequency and race. Resulting in neat graphs that strongly suggests that police violence is caused by two factors: individuals and/or race. Police brutality is a serious problem and data like this should be available, but several things here are (maybe intentionally) provocative: 1. Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ulti…

> Race should really be stripped from this kind statistic. Race is a social construct based on superficial attributes that does not carry any explanatory meaning. It mostly serves to underpin racist prejudice, which in turn serves to blur out the real reasons for a problem.

In a lot of cases, racial prejudice is the problem, or a significant aspect of it. Racism is deeply embedded in the fabric of American society.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#15
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ultimately might threaten their personal safety. As soon as: * The blue code of silence collapses. * Judges and politicians stop covering for cop brutality and protecting cop killers. * Police are more than half as likely to die on the job as a trash collectors. I'll maybe start to buy this line of reasoning. It's an insult to the memory of every unar…

> * Police are more than half as likely to die on the job as a trash collectors. How is this at all relevant to whether a police officer deserves privacy? Yes, their fatality rate is around half that of a trash collector. Since when was HN anti-privacy? You can use data like this to analyze and criticize the system , but I see no reason why the officers' identities would be helpful for any legitimate purpose, especia…

They aren't in a three letter agency, they are low level public servants. Individuals in such a position must be held accountable for their own actions. The system of police unions protecting them is a different matter.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#16

A database that lists the officers responsible for force by name, frequency and race. Resulting in neat graphs that strongly suggests that police violence is caused by two factors: individuals and/or race. Police brutality is a serious problem and data like this should be available, but several things here are (maybe intentionally) provocative: 1. Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ulti…

This use of "race is a social construct" seems strange. When people say that, the key point is typically that it has no biological meaning. It's still often a highly relevant variable when studying social trends and public policy. The institution of a formal police force with its own sociopolitical identity and career prospects is also a social construct, after all.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#17

A database that lists the officers responsible for force by name, frequency and race. Resulting in neat graphs that strongly suggests that police violence is caused by two factors: individuals and/or race. Police brutality is a serious problem and data like this should be available, but several things here are (maybe intentionally) provocative: 1. Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ulti…

> Race should really be stripped from this kind statistic. Race is a social construct based on superficial attributes that does not carry any explanatory meaning. It mostly serves to underpin racist prejudice, which in turn serves to blur out the real reasons for a problem. In a lot of cases, racial prejudice is the problem, or a significant aspect of it. Racism is deeply embedded in the fabric of American society.

> Racism is deeply embedded in the fabric of American society.

Yes, I'm sure, and racism is for sure "a significant aspect" of police brutality, I don't contest it. But racism is nonetheless merely a stupid pattern of thought, and I oppose the notion that combating it is to apply more racism.

You'll note that the database doesn't analyze racism, it analyses race.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#18
post #9
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ultimately might threaten their personal safety. As soon as: * The blue code of silence collapses. * Judges and politicians stop covering for cop brutality and protecting cop killers. * Police are more than half as likely to die on the job as a trash collectors. I'll maybe start to buy this line of reasoning. It's an insult to the memory of every unar…

> * Police are more than half as likely to die on the job as a trash collectors. How is this at all relevant to whether a police officer deserves privacy? Yes, their fatality rate is around half that of a trash collector. Since when was HN anti-privacy? You can use data like this to analyze and criticize the system , but I see no reason why the officers' identities would be helpful for any legitimate purpose, especia…

Police officers have a vast amount of authority, not just being able to decide when to use lethal force, but in how to or even whether or not to pursue a case. In addition, they are protected by laws and resources that make targeting police for harassment an extremely foolish proposition. Judges and prosecutors don’t have their identities hidden, why would the officer whose testimony is often central and unquestioned to a case?

Years ago, David Simon (creator of The Wire and The Deuce), wrote about the difficulty in getting the name of an officer behind a fatal shooting. [0] That officer turned out to have a prior incident of a shooting, and the case against the surviving suspect ended up being dropped. If the prerogative is “prioritize police privacy”, where would thenline be drawn for when transparency is/isn’t allowed?

0: https://davidsimon.com/in-baltimore-no-one-left-to-press-the...

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Race should really be stripped from this kind statistic. Race is a social construct based on superficial attributes that does not carry any explanatory meaning. It mostly serves to underpin racist prejudice, which in turn serves to blur out the real reasons for a problem. In a lot of cases, racial prejudice is the problem, or a significant aspect of it. Racism is deeply embedded in the fabric of American society.

> Racism is deeply embedded in the fabric of American society. Yes, I'm sure, and racism is for sure "a significant aspect" of police brutality, I don't contest it. But racism is nonetheless merely a stupid pattern of thought, and I oppose the notion that combating it is to apply more racism . You'll note that the database doesn't analyze racism, it analyses race .

Noting that race is a factor in police brutality is not racist, it is an anti-racist act.

Re: How we built the largest database of police use of force in N.J. history

#20

A database that lists the officers responsible for force by name, frequency and race. Resulting in neat graphs that strongly suggests that police violence is caused by two factors: individuals and/or race. Police brutality is a serious problem and data like this should be available, but several things here are (maybe intentionally) provocative: 1. Listing the officers by name is a kind of online vigilantism that ulti…

> Race should really be stripped from this kind statistic. Race is a social construct based on superficial attributes that does not carry any explanatory meaning. It mostly serves to underpin racist prejudice, which in turn serves to blur out the real reasons for a problem. In a lot of cases, racial prejudice is the problem, or a significant aspect of it. Racism is deeply embedded in the fabric of American society.

Racism is not limited to American society.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_by_country

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