Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#51

Post by aequitas » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 11:54 AM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #25

“Most of us learn how to ride a bike during childhood. But as we grow older, many of us stop riding and put those once-beloved bikes in storage.” As a Dutch person, this is so weird to read. How can you get by in day-to-day life without a bike ? Mine broke the other day, nothing big just a snapped cable, but I was without a bike for all of 2 days and it felt like being handicapped.

As a fellow Dutchman I must confess my bike is in the shed most days of the year. I live in the suburbs of Arnhem so maybe its different from cities like Utrecht/Amsterdam. Most transport for me is either by car or walking.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#52

Post by jusssi » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:03 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #48

> One thing we know for sure, however, is simple sequences of movements we internalize, even far in the past, are typically preserved for a lifetime. There may be a way to hack this? That is, store declarative data into procedural memory, so that we never ever forget it? But maybe there are not many memories that need to be preserved over a long period of time. I can't really think of anything that I would need to re…

Add a little song and dance around the narrative.

It's ridiculous how well I can still remember many of the kids' songs and poems, even though I have little recollection of anything else left from that time.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#53

Post by aequitas » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:03 PM UTC

jonas21 wrote: post #3

Reminded me of this Smarter Every Day video, which is definitely worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFzDaBzBlL0 (The Backwards Brain Bicycle)

I also rode this kind of bike once as a kid on a fair. Same thing, the reflex was to strong and familiar to consciously override it. I had a similar experience like this when I wanted to learn snowboarding, I tried to do it myself without lessons. Learning to stand, slide (front and back) and break on a board was 'easy'. But I was taking to long teaching myself to turn a slide into a slalom properly. Turned out my reflex to break was to strong and I had to force myself to unlearn this reflex.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#54

Post by fian » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:06 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #40

uki33 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calligraphy, handwriting, drawing, painting etc etc you loose it if you don't work on it regularly. Same goes for programming. Take a year or two off and see what your remember about algorithms and protocols.

For advanced techniques, I agree, but the same probably applies to advanced bicycling techniques. Basic handwriting is probably not something you would forget, just like basic bicycling.

Some possible equivalents from cycling:

Riding technical trails on a MTB. Without regular practice you lose a lot of pace.

Street or park BMX tricks (tail whips, flairs, flips, grinds etc). These require skill plus confidence. Without regular practice the confidence won't be there to attempt them.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#55

Post by aaaaaaaaaab » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:09 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #5

I was once an avid rock climber, but stopped for many years. One night on a surf trip in Indonesia I had someone hold my beer while I climbed a palm tree, which was only about 15 feet high, but that's still high enough that you don't want to fall. I got to the top of the trunk and reached up to grab one of the branches, and it was like, 'oh man, I'm so out of condition, I can barely grip this'. But then, accidentally…

Nitpicking: adrenaline doesn’t act that rapidly. Rather it’s the sympathetic response to a perceived threat.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#56

Post by lexicality » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:16 PM UTC

uki33 wrote: post #24

baddox wrote: post #6

Does anyone find anything odd or unique about the fact that we don’t forget how to ride a bike? I can’t think of any similar activity that people do forget.

Calligraphy, handwriting, drawing, painting etc etc you loose it if you don't work on it regularly. Same goes for programming. Take a year or two off and see what your remember about algorithms and protocols.

Programming isn't a physical activity though. I'm sure you'd remember (or pick up incredibly fast) how to touch type after those two years.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#57

Post by lexicality » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:23 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #41

Evolutionarily speaking, what is the impetus for this? It isn't like a dangerous situation, where you would benefit from remembering it for the rest of your life, despite only experiencing it once. Also it isn't like remembering something that you do every day. The closest approximation I can think of is something that happens seasonally, it is probably beneficial to remember how to harvest the berries of the bonga b…

These memories are stored in the centre of the brain and thus presumably evolved well before sentience.

Learning how to climb a tree or swim in a fast river are very important survival skills and the ability to not forget them would give you an advantage.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#58

Post by jnbiche » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:35 PM UTC

uki33 wrote: post #24

baddox wrote: post #6

Does anyone find anything odd or unique about the fact that we don’t forget how to ride a bike? I can’t think of any similar activity that people do forget.

Calligraphy, handwriting, drawing, painting etc etc you loose it if you don't work on it regularly. Same goes for programming. Take a year or two off and see what your remember about algorithms and protocols.

> Take a year or two off and see what your remember about algorithms and protocols.

And this is the main problem with algorithmic interviews. This type of programming has little to do with the stuff most of us do on a daily basis. So we forget much of it a year or two after our last interview, and have to go back and spend weeks or months reviewing when preparing to interview again. Seems like a waste of time.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#59

Post by odiroot » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:52 PM UTC

FatalLogic wrote: post #2

I'll suggest that we don't forget to how to ride a bike because a very important part of that skill is confidence and self-belief. It's similar to swimming. Does anybody ever forget how to swim? If you don't believe you can ride a bike then you'll tend to wobble around slowly and cautiously and overcorrect by manual steering. If you don't believe you can swim then you'll try to constantly hold your face too high abov…

Yes, I forgot how to swim. Learned it in primary school and didn't practice at all until Uni. Nearly 10 years later and I struggle to keep from drowning.

Re: Why Don’t We Forget How to Ride a Bike?

#60

Post by Someone » Sun, Dec 02, 2018, 12:55 PM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #41

Evolutionarily speaking, what is the impetus for this? It isn't like a dangerous situation, where you would benefit from remembering it for the rest of your life, despite only experiencing it once. Also it isn't like remembering something that you do every day. The closest approximation I can think of is something that happens seasonally, it is probably beneficial to remember how to harvest the berries of the bonga b…

(Warning: layman’s comment) I would guess part of it is that this needs fast feedback loops. That means it gets controlled from ‘lower-level’ parts of your nervous system, possibly (¿partly?) from the spinal cord (like the patellar reflex https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patellar_reflex), rather than from the brain.

Those parts of you nervous system have to be fast, and may be less flexible because of it, increasing both learning time (you can learn what you have to do to cycle in seconds: “OK, I’ll sit there, put my hands there, my feet there, keep my balance and make these movements, but actually learning how to do it takes a lot longer) and forgetting time.

I also guess that makes cycling and walking so relaxing as activities. You’re doing work, but can let the more cerebral parts of your brain wander around without giving much attention to what’s going on (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind-wandering). Of course, that’s dependent on environment. A walk in the park is more relaxing than crossing Times square, and cycling on separated cycle lanes more relaxing than the hell of navigating between cars, because, in both cases, your ‘higher brain’ must attend to the situation.