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Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

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Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#21
If you want to see where the Monarch butterflies migrate to in the winter and what such a thing looks like, there's a great reserve near the city of Angangueo, Mexico (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angangueo). 3.5hr bus ride from Mexico City.

You get up in the morning and take a taxi higher into the mountains to the reserve, getting out and walking further up the mountain's roped off trail.

The trail terminates into a small, flat observation area. And if you go early enough, you might wonder where the hell all the butterflies are. But on closer inspection of the tall trees around you, you'll notice most of what you thought were leaves and bark are really clumps and clumps of sleeping (and half-frozen?) butterflies.

Once the sun comes out, these masses of butterflies seem to wake up and stretch their wings, warming them up before descending the mountain in one never-ending flock, landing in a grassy clearing (about 50m back down the trail) to drink from a stream and frolic in the sun. Butterflies will be everywhere, swooping past you in incredible numbers or landing on you -- especially if you're wearing bright colors.

Cool experience, charming little town, and beautiful landscape. As things become more dire for these little guys, might be worth a visit.

I thought Angangueo would've been warm since it's a migratory winter destination, but it's super cold and colder than most of the climates the butterflies abandoned in the north. The place we stayed at had no hot water or fireplace. But a little bit of adversity, like seeing your own breath while trying to fall asleep, makes a travel experience a little richer upon recollection. :)

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#22
post #19

This seems like part of the insect apocalypse story, and bee colony collapse disorder. All probably caused by overuse of insecticides. Note that if we don't find a way to correct this, it can be catastrophic on a timescale that makes the most alarmist climate change predictions seem like nothing. There must be some percentage of normal insect population density below which population of frogs and birds and what not w…

I have a bad feeling that the "insect apocalypse" will spare cockroaches, fire ants, Asian stink bugs, etc, etc.

Just you wait... bed bugs will cross breed with fire ants then we're all doomed.

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#23
When I was a kid it was normal to see a few dead monarchs in the grill of dad's car. So was having a dozen house flys indoors.

Nowadays I never see a monarch and I can leave the windows of the house open all day and not see a fly or any bugs for that matter.

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#24
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a bad feeling that the "insect apocalypse" will spare cockroaches, fire ants, Asian stink bugs, etc, etc.

Just you wait... bed bugs will cross breed with fire ants then we're all doomed.

I vaguely remember an SF short story from the 50s-60s with a world full of stuff like that. You couldn't go outside without protective gear.

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#25

This is about in line with the intelligence with which I see people pursuing their interactions with the natural world around us. “A bare patch of dirt?? Let’s pay someone to spray it with Round-Up! On all of our 480 locations”

Though I agree with the end effect, the reality is closer to “let’s pay a landscape company to take care of this thing that isn’t our core business” (perfectly rational) and then the landscape company figures out the most cost-effective way to accomplish that.

If that lens is correct, asking people to forego landscape services isn’t the right response, but rather to better educate and/or regulate landscaping services and their chemical use.

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#26
post #4

I planted milkweed in my front yard. These plants don't come cheap, between 10-20$ at the nursery for a young plant. I never was able to grow them from seed. Anyways, the plants did attract a few monarchs late summer/early fall. I counted two. I planted nine total. I got a code violation warning last month for not mowing my front yard and having overgrown "landscape weeds".

You have inspired me, thank you. Thanks to your inspiration, I'll be planting as many milkweed plants as I think will grow here, in addition to my usual off-grid food planting. Little by little, I am nursing this overgrazed plot into a complex microcosm. The plot is in a major migration route and this is the first year I'll be actively be supporting Monarchs, other than planting my usual garden herbs. They seem to li…

Do some searching; there are many free or subsidized milkweed organizations.

One example - https://monarchwatch.org/bring-back-the-monarchs/milkweed/fr...

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#27
post #13

This seems like part of the insect apocalypse story, and bee colony collapse disorder. All probably caused by overuse of insecticides. Note that if we don't find a way to correct this, it can be catastrophic on a timescale that makes the most alarmist climate change predictions seem like nothing. There must be some percentage of normal insect population density below which population of frogs and birds and what not w…

> This seems like part of the insect apocalypse story... For those who aren’t aware what they’re referring to by insect apocalypse, a story came out a few days ago about some seemingly very important insect research: NYTimes: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/magazine/insect-apocalyps... HN Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18541536

There's also this paper [1] describing "biological annihilation via the ongoing sixth mass extinction". Should have made front page news everywhere.

[1]http://www.pnas.org/content/114/30/E6089

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#28
As I believe that Earth is the only life-bearing planet in our galaxy, if not the whole Universe, I'm extremely saddened with news like this of a near-extinction of yet another fascinating species.

My only hope is that humanity will spread among the stars, dispersing what species remain to billions of new worlds, and that this might be our redemption for the unspeakable crimes we have committed against life...

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just you wait... bed bugs will cross breed with fire ants then we're all doomed.

I vaguely remember an SF short story from the 50s-60s with a world full of stuff like that. You couldn't go outside without protective gear.

The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner. It was the scariest book I ever read.

Re: Monarch butterfly populations in U.S. west are down an order of magnitude

#30
post #29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely remember an SF short story from the 50s-60s with a world full of stuff like that. You couldn't go outside without protective gear.

The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner. It was the scariest book I ever read.

Thanks. I read that too. But I'm pretty sure that this was a short story. I remember a description of venturing outside, with suit failure, and horrible stuff happening. However, it could have been a particularly memorable part of The Sheep Look Up.
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