Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters • Hacker News Board

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#71

Post by jammygit » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:18 PM UTC

This sort of thing is going to cause a huge chilling effect in the medium-term as it becomes more widespread. Every nuance of how you act or look is going to get collected by websites and cameras and used to make conclusions about who you are (accurate or not), potentially stored forever.

One can only imagine how China will use these approaches with their planned 570M cameras with facial recognition.

edit: number of cameras was an order of magnitude low, corrected based on: https://www.businessinsider.com/china-facial-recognition-tec...

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#72

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:18 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #65

Are you telling me that people who buy camo clothes are more likely to be conservative? That's crazy talk. Next thing you'll tell me is people who dye their hair pink or blue are more likely to be liberal.

[deleted]

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#73

Post by TeMPOraL » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:19 PM UTC

eeZah7Ux wrote: post #62

TeMPOraL wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty much a definition of stereotype. Humans too form statistical models in their head, even if they don't usually call them that.

"a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing" A statistical model is not an oversimplification.

Of course it is. "Oversimplification" is like literally the definition of "statistical model" in layman's terms. Statistical models are useful precisely because they cut out almost all the details.

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#74

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:22 PM UTC

everdev wrote: post #4

Unfortunately, stereotypes have utility. No one likes being caught up as a false positive in a stereotype, but when you look at mass market politics / advertising / marketing they cater to charactures of their intended audience because for the most part it seems to work. Every once in a while someone takes it too far and a group gets offended, but let's not pretend that Cambridge is the only one doing this.

Stereotypes have some limited utility, because people who believe that stereotypes have value reward you for conforming to them, and punish you for deviating from them. For example, they may only market a product to you if you conform to a stereotype they have of people who would use that product, instead of materially analyzing whether the product would be a good investment for you and how to present the argument, which is harder than just going "you look like one of our customers, but your look isn't complete, let us fill that hole."

Of course, if what you're selling is a look and not useful for anything else, this is a good way to market, but if your product is useful, you can do better.

It's also important to add that CA's techniques didn't work.

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#75

Post by MistahKoala » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:23 PM UTC

Hardly ground-breaking stuff; individuals do this in everyday life as a matter of routine. They even use this tacit knowledge when they attempt to manipulate others: just compare 'old' Chris Wylie with 'new' Chris Wylie.

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#76

Post by AndrewKemendo » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:29 PM UTC

chrisco255 wrote: post #65

Are you telling me that people who buy camo clothes are more likely to be conservative? That's crazy talk. Next thing you'll tell me is people who dye their hair pink or blue are more likely to be liberal.

Next thing you'll tell me is people who dye their hair pink or blue are more likely to be liberal.

I have been curious about this particular recent feature.

Does brightly colored/neon hair indicate the person is part of some particular group?

My exposure to this trend has been primarily with people on the internet, specifically Twitter and it seems to be predominantly women, and predominantly associated with being outspoken on modern civil rights issues.

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#77

Post by WillPostForFood » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #59

WillPostForFood wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also begs the question of whether we have any more free will in fashion choices than we do skin color.

I can see an argument for that but I don't think it's a valid assertion. People can change opinions. They can't so easily change their skin color.

You can change opinions, but it is unclear whether you have free will over the change.

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#78

Post by theoh » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:51 PM UTC

tobr wrote: post #70

snowwrestler wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're talking about using personas. I'm not surprised that was your reaction, as personas are often misunderstood, even by marketing folks. The point of using personas is not to stereotype your customers but to establish focus sufficient to permit clear product decisions. In other words the idea is not "all our customers are like this" but "this is the type of customer we care about the most." Or more typica…

Maybe they’re supposed to be individuals, but the problem is that unlike real individuals, you made them up. You can’t learn anything from them that you didn’t put into them yourself. Only a real person with lifelong experience of being themselves can give you insight into what that’s like.

If you are designing for someone, you have to base your design decisions on what you have observed that person doing or saying. By your logic, generalizing from past observations of other people is never going to be enough to make an adequate design.

So either you have to literally prototype each touchpoint (for example) with every possible customer (even the ones who can't articulate what they actually need), or the design is going to have to be based on insight into human nature and (varying) capabilities. Luckily, most designed things are simple enough that generalizing about users in order to discover the "right answer" isn't an unachievable fantasy.

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#79

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 9:57 PM UTC

axaxs wrote: post #41

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #2

People who buy Wrangler and LL Bean might vote conservative. Hard hitting stuff right there. I suppose as per the article we could make a guess about the people that buy green hair dye?

Not sure why downvoted, I agree. A 'western' and 'outdoorsy' company tends to have conservative customers, I think any 12 year old could tell you that. I'd rather see unexpected/unexplained trends, things the average person wouldn't already assume.

[deleted]

Re: Cambridge Analytica Used Fashion Tastes to Identify Right-Wing Voters

#80

Post by IgorPartola » Sat, Dec 01, 2018, 10:02 PM UTC

tobr wrote: post #70

snowwrestler wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're talking about using personas. I'm not surprised that was your reaction, as personas are often misunderstood, even by marketing folks. The point of using personas is not to stereotype your customers but to establish focus sufficient to permit clear product decisions. In other words the idea is not "all our customers are like this" but "this is the type of customer we care about the most." Or more typica…

Maybe they’re supposed to be individuals, but the problem is that unlike real individuals, you made them up. You can’t learn anything from them that you didn’t put into them yourself. Only a real person with lifelong experience of being themselves can give you insight into what that’s like.

Look, if you take a group of 100 people who are into Warhammer 40k, chances are that at least 80% of them will have played StarCraft too. Collapsing that group into a single person and calling her Wendy helps some people reason about them. If you prefer to think of them a Venn diagrams and that helps you sleep at night, no crime in that.