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Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

arstechnica.com

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Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#111

Post by jt2190 »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #108
larsiusprime wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Otherwise you wouldn't be allowed to sell paintings you own, but don't also own the copyright to reproduce digitally. Copyright and ownership of physical artifacts are two different things.

No, that's not how it works. Al Lowe is indeed violating copyright by selling these. You can't just go selling your ex-employers source code because it "happened to be on your laptop". It's absolutely a copyright violation. The reason you can sell physical goods is because of the first sale doctrine and alike. Al Lowe never bought this source code on physical media; rather he created it during his employment. Thus he…

A quibble: The source code belongs to Al Lowe’s ex-employer only if he had a work for hire agreement in place with them. Copyright is implicit and, unless otherwise agreed to, belongs to the creator by default. Anything I write (including code) I have the right to copy unless I transfer that right.

(This, by the way, is why your employer requires that you sign those “we own everything you create while you work for us” documents.)

Edit: But this case seems to hinge on Al selling the physical media, rather than the IP rights. More like selling a used book.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#112

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

ballenf wrote: post #110
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not how it works. Al Lowe is indeed violating copyright by selling these. You can't just go selling your ex-employers source code because it "happened to be on your laptop". It's absolutely a copyright violation. The reason you can sell physical goods is because of the first sale doctrine and alike. Al Lowe never bought this source code on physical media; rather he created it during his employment. Thus he…

All true. It's a unique case here in that by the time the copyright period expires, the media will probably be unreadable. The idea of copyright is to reward creativity for a limited time and then give that work to the public. If the work can't ever fall into public hands then I'd argue it shouldn't get copyright protection. Obviously that's a public policy debate, not a justification for breaking the law but it make…

Yeah, I ought to point out that I agree with everything you've written. I'm far from a proponent of how wide reaching copyright laws are these days. Thanks, Disney!

Nonetheless, despite not being a lawyer, and having never taken a single legal class during my education; I still find myself regularly correcting other professionals misunderstanding of copyright laws. It would be so easy for someone to seriously ruin their life by not understanding this stuff. Although, that's largely a flaw of our overly complicated legal system, and far from being exclusively the individuals fault.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#113

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

jt2190 wrote: post #111
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's not how it works. Al Lowe is indeed violating copyright by selling these. You can't just go selling your ex-employers source code because it "happened to be on your laptop". It's absolutely a copyright violation. The reason you can sell physical goods is because of the first sale doctrine and alike. Al Lowe never bought this source code on physical media; rather he created it during his employment. Thus he…

A quibble: The source code belongs to Al Lowe’s ex-employer only if he had a work for hire agreement in place with them. Copyright is implicit and, unless otherwise agreed to, belongs to the creator by default. Anything I write (including code) I have the right to copy unless I transfer that right. (This, by the way, is why your employer requires that you sign those “we own everything you create while you work for us…

This depends on your jurisdiction, and in many places precedence has been set by case law.

But generally, unfortunately, no. If you create something "on the clock" or using your employer's hardware (even in your free time), then the copyright is typically implicitly transferred to your employer.

EDIT: This is actually covered in season 1 of Silicon Valley... Yeah, legit reference, I know ;)

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#114

Post by lr4444lr »

ngneer wrote: post #55

I remember my father taking me to see the Sierra offices, right by Coarsegold, CA. They were closed, but it was a fun trip, given how happy those games made my childhood. I know I am not the only one here.

Coarsegold CA... the setting of Freddy Pharkas Frontier Pharmacist, the gamr that was arguably "peak" Al Lowe. The jokes didn't let up for a minute!

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#115

Post by wglb »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #113
jt2190 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quibble: The source code belongs to Al Lowe’s ex-employer only if he had a work for hire agreement in place with them. Copyright is implicit and, unless otherwise agreed to, belongs to the creator by default. Anything I write (including code) I have the right to copy unless I transfer that right. (This, by the way, is why your employer requires that you sign those “we own everything you create while you work for us…

This depends on your jurisdiction, and in many places precedence has been set by case law. But generally, unfortunately, no. If you create something "on the clock" or using your employer's hardware (even in your free time), then the copyright is typically implicitly transferred to your employer. EDIT : This is actually covered in season 1 of Silicon Valley... Yeah, legit reference, I know ;)

This is true only if explicitly called out in documents you sign when you join the company, or sign a consulting contract. There needs to be language that calls this out.

Mind you, pretty much every US company has that as part of their HR policy or contract agreement.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#116

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

wglb wrote: post #115
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This depends on your jurisdiction, and in many places precedence has been set by case law. But generally, unfortunately, no. If you create something "on the clock" or using your employer's hardware (even in your free time), then the copyright is typically implicitly transferred to your employer. EDIT : This is actually covered in season 1 of Silicon Valley... Yeah, legit reference, I know ;)

This is true only if explicitly called out in documents you sign when you join the company, or sign a consulting contract. There needs to be language that calls this out. Mind you, pretty much every US company has that as part of their HR policy or contract agreement.

Sorry, that's not the case. The relevant laws governing this are called "work for hire".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_for_hire

Other countries don't necessarily have it spelled out so clearly, but instead leave it to case law. However, it's mostly the same around the globe.

The contracts are so your employer owns inventions created outside of work hours, not using employer equipment. This part of your employment agreement is actually frequently contested and deemed unenforceable unless the work is in the same area of expertise as your full-time employment i.e. using knowledge from your job. But it comes down to individual cases.

EDIT: It's covered on the Wikipedia page I've linked. However, just to clarify, the act of being employed is automatically considered work for hire by the legislation. If you're not an employee, but rather a contractor, then you may explicitly form a work for hire agreement in writing as part of the contract.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#117

Post by NicoJuicy »

prepend wrote: post #104
mosselman wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant with regards to the loss for society when this disappears into some private collection. I’d be better in a museum. I am sure he’ll earn enough short term money from the auctions.

It’s been disappeared in a private collection for years. I’m sure he’s cool with someone buying all the stuff to form a private collection.

I kinda agree on that. The loss for society of the source code of an old game.....

I don't see any extra value. I do agree it would be nice to see the source code and look at it. Some have an emotional attachment to it, but if it wouldn't have been sold/shared, nobody would have cared or request it.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#118

Post by rags2riches »

fallous wrote: post #88
rags2riches wrote: post #83

Looks like the 3.5" floppies have had the hole punch treatment to increase capacity! That wasn't always great for reliability as I remember it...

Um, hole punching was used on 5 1/4" and 8" floppies, not 3.5".

Did see this photo? https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/s-l16...

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#120

Post by billfruit »

mosselman wrote: post #96

EBay seems like the worst possible place for this. Why not donate it to some organisation that would work out a way for people to look at at least parts of the code?

Or why not surreptitiously let it go into the hands of the pirates, which may at-least ensure its distribution.
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