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H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

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Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#91

Post by tracer4201 »

belltaco wrote: post #82
pm90 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your logic seems weird to me. His company was promised a service that was unable to be fulfilled because a Government program for making available talented non-citizens actually failed. He is suggesting that the program be run as expected. While you seem to be saying it’s ok to let in unqualified folks because they will ultimately always make a positive economic impact before inevitably getting kicked out.

No, his company was literally promised nothing by the government, everything was promised by Infosys or whatever staffing company they used and they were gullible enough to believe them. If they had been misled by staffing companies like IBM using citizen employees who were fresh out of high school or with no IT experience and totally incompetent, would you blame the government as well? You cannot expect the governme…

>No, his company was literally promised nothing by the government, everything was promised by Infosys or whatever staffing company they used.

The government is offering a program to bring in the best and brightest to fulfill jobs that we can't otherwise fill. It needs to do a better job regulating that program, because it's clearly being abused. If it can't afford to regulate it or doesn't believe that regulation is affordable or a good use of tax payer money, than the government should rescind that program.

It's really that simple.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#92

Post by jopsen »

Too little...

Wow, that change is not very ambitious. Abuse could be solved by simply requiring a salary above 100k, and verify this with the IRS. Then banning companies who seem to fail this.

It's crude, but simple. As for the number 100k, I suppose you could let each state set its own number. Or let the administration change it at it sees fit.

Yeah, these ideas aren't perfect, but why let that get in the way of good.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#93

Post by manishyt »

belltaco wrote: post #82
pm90 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your logic seems weird to me. His company was promised a service that was unable to be fulfilled because a Government program for making available talented non-citizens actually failed. He is suggesting that the program be run as expected. While you seem to be saying it’s ok to let in unqualified folks because they will ultimately always make a positive economic impact before inevitably getting kicked out.

No, his company was literally promised nothing by the government, everything was promised by Infosys or whatever staffing company they used and they were gullible enough to believe them. If they had been misled by staffing companies like IBM using citizen employees who were fresh out of high school or with no IT experience and totally incompetent, would you blame the government as well? You cannot expect the governme…

I whole heartedly agree with your free market solution. However, one of the concerns is that immigrants are often ready to work on lower pay just to get in the country. So, wouldn't they bring down the overall wages of these jobs and affect citizens? Are you suggesting that they would switch jobs for better pay once they move to the US in effect balancing the job market?

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#94

Post by souprock »

diggernet wrote: post #43
belltaco wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't believe there's a shortage of talent in this country. Do you have any experience in hiring people? East coast here and its impossible to find citizens who can code FizzBuzz. Those that can already have a job and don't come to interviews. There are multiple thousands of very high paying security related job openings that need citizens only, because of clearances. Zero percent unemployment: https://cybersecuri…

And every one of those I've looked at in my area required a clearance, and wouldn't consider "clearable". You can't get a clearance without having a job that needs it. Without a clearance, you can't get a job that needs one unless the job accepts clearable candidates. By requiring a clearance they are fighting for people from a very limited pool. If they really want to fill those jobs they'd allow clearable candidate…

Clearable is normally good enough where I work.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#95

Post by reaperducer »

tracer4201 wrote: post #8
belltaco wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key problem is that the visa is given to the company, not the person, leaving the employee at the mercy of the company, leading to abuses like underpay and overwork in even direct jobs. If you lose your job, you lose your green card application if it's not past a certain stage and may have to leave the country immediately in case of layoffs, being fired. The rules are byzantine and a bureacratic nightmare with lo…

Even if you give the visa to the employee, now you run the risk of employers sizing up an employee's status (are they a citizen or an immigrant who needs a job to stay in the country) and hiring or offering salaries based on that. It'll still lead to the wrong behaviors. Citizenship questions are illegal but still get asked. Are you going to outlaw asking about an employee's immigration status? Good luck enforcing th…

Citizenship questions are illegal but still get asked

Can you clarify this? Of the dozens of jobs I've had in the United States, every one required me to prove that I'm a citizen or eligible to work in the country.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#96

Post by belltaco »

manishyt wrote: post #93
belltaco wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, his company was literally promised nothing by the government, everything was promised by Infosys or whatever staffing company they used and they were gullible enough to believe them. If they had been misled by staffing companies like IBM using citizen employees who were fresh out of high school or with no IT experience and totally incompetent, would you blame the government as well? You cannot expect the governme…

I whole heartedly agree with your free market solution. However, one of the concerns is that immigrants are often ready to work on lower pay just to get in the country. So, wouldn't they bring down the overall wages of these jobs and affect citizens? Are you suggesting that they would switch jobs for better pay once they move to the US in effect balancing the job market?

Yes. If you bring someone in for $50K but their market price is $90K and it's easy to switch, why would that person not switch jobs ASAP?

When that happens, the company takes a hit and is less likely next time to bring in more people because of the associated costs of HR, interviews , visa fees, immigration lawyers, onboarding, time wasted on getting them up to speed on the project etc.

It would be a huge blow to body shops.

This results in fewer people coming in unless they are really needed.

Right now H1B employees are stuck in jobs without normal pay hikes for years and can be forced to work longer hours. That's how the companies make their costs back and much more.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#97

Post by repsilat »

godelmachine wrote: post #70

They have raised the chances of folks with advanced degress getting hired by a paltry 16%, or 5000 in number to be exact. Is this a significant difference?

The regulatory bang-for-buck is pretty high, though -- no complex rule-making, no significant change in procedure, just a 16% bump for practically nothing.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#98

Post by belltaco »

tracer4201 wrote: post #91
belltaco wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, his company was literally promised nothing by the government, everything was promised by Infosys or whatever staffing company they used and they were gullible enough to believe them. If they had been misled by staffing companies like IBM using citizen employees who were fresh out of high school or with no IT experience and totally incompetent, would you blame the government as well? You cannot expect the governme…

>No, his company was literally promised nothing by the government, everything was promised by Infosys or whatever staffing company they used. The government is offering a program to bring in the best and brightest to fulfill jobs that we can't otherwise fill. It needs to do a better job regulating that program, because it's clearly being abused. If it can't afford to regulate it or doesn't believe that regulation is…

>The government is offering a program to bring in the best and brightest to fulfill jobs that we can't otherwise fill.

Show me where the H1B program or mandate says anything about the best and brightest. Perhaps you confused H1B with the O-1 visa program or the EB-1 priority green card employment category?

>or doesn't believe that regulation is affordable or a good use of tax payer money, than the government should rescind that program.

The program isn't run from tax payer money, it pays for itself and then some.

>How is the Uscis funded?

>Funding. Unlike most other federal agencies, USCIS is funded almost entirely by user fees. Under President George W. Bush's FY2008 budget request, direct congressional appropriations made about 1% of the USCIS budget and about 99% of the budget was funded through fees.

On top of the application fee that funds USCIS, there is a visa fee to fund the consulate visa process. And top of that there is a $500 anti-fraud fee per application. On top of that there is another large fee that is used to fund job training for citizens which has raised billions of dollars so far that has been used to help train citizens. On top of that some types of employers are charged another large fee to fund.... border security with Mexico! shrug. Just the fees can cost $4000 to $5000. There is also yet another $1400 on top of all this to process the application faster, otherwise it can take 8 months to more than a year. Google it if you want to find out the details.

Sorry, but it is clear from our conversation that you don't have the first clue about anything related to this topic. I won't be replying anymore until you try and bring yourself up to speed on what you're ranting and raving about based on one off anecdotal bad experience.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#100

Post by pm90 »

mavelikara wrote: post #90
pm90 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You picked one fake mill. There are over 1.1 million foreign graduate students. The foreign degree mill theory is not based on facts, only anecdotes.

Nobody, certainly not me, is disparaging the credentials of immigrant graduates from top American universities. But there exists a long tail of Universities, many of them who seem to exist solely as a pathway to fulfillment of the American Dream of immigrat students. See https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/us/international-enrollme... Consider two statements: A) Most immigrant graduates are of low caliber. B) Most imm…

The real question is whether its worth going after the long tail if its an insignificant fraction of incoming immigrants (and really, an insignificant number in total). You have to consider that, in making sure the long tail is taken care of, you risk in making it significantly harder for the rest of the lot to make it through.
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