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H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

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Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#51

> The Department of Homeland Security wants to switch the order of these lotteries, it said in a notice of the proposed rule change, which would — somewhat counterintuitively — improve the odds for those highly educated workers > ... with a master’s or doctoral degree from an American college or university This is a welcome change. But this biases the playing field in favor of those graduating from American degree mi…

[deleted]

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My point is that it will make it easier for employees stuck in a bad spot due to employee abuse to switch jobs. Sure. I think that's fair, but getting a work visa should be harder in the first place. One of my previous companies got IT workers heavily through a big contracting company. We received folks who: 1) Didn't understand their domain 2) Couldn't communicate in English, neither verbal or written This person c…

How do you enforce that at a govt level when companies okay with it? Why didn't your company ask for interviews of contractors? We are seeing a free market failure here that is better fixed by companies rather than complicated and cumbersome regulation. How will USCIS and consulate officers be able to do a better job determining if someone is suitable to work in a company than the company themselves? Why should tax d…

We obviously had to let these people go. A director was also later let go because it turned out he was getting freebies under the table by the contracting company.

We hire an external company to send us people because they have supposed to have vetted them. We pay for that service.

This isn't just a company problem. Feel free to call the company lazy all you want, but why is someone who has no expertise in an area and cannot speak English allowed to enter the country under a program that lets exceptiobap people in because apparently we don't have talented people here?

So if I understand you correctly, we should let people enter the country without vetting them because its a waste of taxpayer money? Let's say my employer perfectly filtered out this person as soon as they came in the door. Let's say the contracting company employing him lets him go too. So what if he now falls on the social system? It's cool? You're okay to pay for that?

With respect, your logic makes no sense to me. We shouldn't allow unqualified people to goldmine through these programs. There needs to be a much higher bar. Right now there isn't one at all.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#53
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my company most H1 workers that come from Infosys and others are mainly there because they are cheap and not because they are "highly qualified" as the intent of H1 is. If Infosys just had to pay market rates they would lose competitiveness and open up visa spots for the people who truly deserve one.

You Infosys colleagues might be slightly underpaid than you, but not by much. But real cost saving Infosys offers to your employer is the team that works offshore . Your Infosys colleagues are acting as bridges between that team and yours. Infosys made almost $11B in 2018. They are not going to sweat the salary of few H-1B engineers. If American engineers, or Indian ones having Green Card, will do the job - liaison t…

I’ve seen the difference in pay, and it’s very large. They aren’t proxying offshore either. Not at the big tech companies who use them for staff augmentation anyway.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#54
post #9

Why not just go to an auction system, where the group that is going to give the highest salary gets the visa? You could adjust it for CoL so all H1Bs don't end up in SF and NYC. What would be bad about this system?

I've just posted the same and then saw your post. There are so many benefits of this approach:

* Good companies that actually pay a lot will automatically push out outsourcers that sneak cheap labor under pretense of finding rate talent.

* It automatically solves the problem of lowering salary standards.

* If good companies happen to exhaust the quota this will make them compete for seniors which will automatically start favoring U.S. local fresh grads for junior positions, which is also good. It's always sad to see 10+ years experience people in junior positions because they are willing to lower standards to the ground for a chance to immigrate.

Of course there are a lot of caveats with cost of living and titles and levels and benefit packages, but I'm sure they can be worked out?

* There may be separate auctions for every occupation while occupations themselves rationed proportionally per #of applications (or even micromanaged if the country needs more of a certain skill)

* It can be made illegal to offer less stocks/benefits than to a local, so companies won't cheat there

* It of course should be adjusted for CoL

* Startups can have their offers upscaled if necessary, though I'm not entirely sure it's the right thing to do (what prevents those outsourcers from founding 10000 startups and so abuse the boost?)

Running lotteries as well as trying to indirectly rig them looks so dumb to me. If you have already identified the source of the problem why not target it directly?

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#55

As a person from New Zealand without an advanced degree (from anywhere) but with 30+ years industry experience (and previously granted an H-1B in 2001), this seems like the wrong way to tackle the problem of Indian body shops. I was selected in this year's lottery in April and am still waiting for them to start processing the case -- according to their web site it could easily take until sometime in February, ten mon…

Country quotas are bad. It’s not Indians that are the problem, it’s specifically the Indian body shops. No sense penalizing the good candidates who are doing things right.

American tech giants are the ones to blame for this problem. They are hiring massive amounts of contractors (“vendors”) through these companies so they don’t have to have FTEs on their balance sheet. They’ll go away on their own once the market stops supporting them.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#56
post #39

As a person from New Zealand without an advanced degree (from anywhere) but with 30+ years industry experience (and previously granted an H-1B in 2001), this seems like the wrong way to tackle the problem of Indian body shops. I was selected in this year's lottery in April and am still waiting for them to start processing the case -- according to their web site it could easily take until sometime in February, ten mon…

Some companies would be decimated (literally) by a move from 60k to 130k... But it would definitely cut down on abuse or result in a big raise for the locals.

I don't think they would be decimated; they would just have to alter the heuristics of the automated resume -> trash bin filters so that they select from the candidates they've been ignoring for absurd reasons.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#57
post #50

Duh. H-1B has always favored tech companies because it increases the labor supply and indirectly decreases salaries. Perfect example of how companies only want free markets when it benefits them. Honestly, I was hoping Trump would end the entire program, but who am I kidding? Google and friends spend way too much on lobbying for that to happen.

Xenophobia is a powerful drug. Good luck working in one of those many tech companies who wouldn't exist if it weren't for immigrants who started them.

You're putting words in my mouth and not understanding my argument. The irony of your comment is that H-1Bs literally can't start companies here because if they quit the job sponsoring their visa they'll be deported.

I'm completely happy for people to immigrate here, but H-1B doesn't help them do that, and instead lets corporations exploit them.

H-1B is bad for immigrants because it puts them at the mercy of big corporations. H-1Bs are bad for citizens and legal immigrants because it lets corporations import cheaper labor.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#58

Duh. H-1B has always favored tech companies because it increases the labor supply and indirectly decreases salaries. Perfect example of how companies only want free markets when it benefits them. Honestly, I was hoping Trump would end the entire program, but who am I kidding? Google and friends spend way too much on lobbying for that to happen.

> Perfect example of how companies only want free markets when it benefits them. There are many cases where corporations show hypocritical behavior, but this criticism seems off the mark as the companies actually do want free market in this case (i.e. free labor market where they can get a labor from anywhere), and in this case, they are not getting it (there's a lot of legal barrier making it difficult to import lab…

No, the free market solution would be to raise wages to attract more people into the industry. There's nothing stopping them from doing that, but instead they're lobbying the government to let them import workers.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#59

> The Department of Homeland Security wants to switch the order of these lotteries, it said in a notice of the proposed rule change, which would — somewhat counterintuitively — improve the odds for those highly educated workers > ... with a master’s or doctoral degree from an American college or university This is a welcome change. But this biases the playing field in favor of those graduating from American degree mi…

Universities are not the same and a bad American university is probably no better than a bad foreign university.

Most countries with sensible work visas have a point system. Make candidates self-asses and file the application, bucket them into tiers and if you still really want to roll the dice then assign spots to particular tiers.

Japan is a great example. They have a wide range of visas. From unskilled worker visas without possibility of obtaining residency (I think there will be a new one with the possibility, but can be wrong), to a couple of different skilled worker visas to the "high-end" highly skilled foreign professional (HSFP).

For HSFP you get points for years of experience in the field, age, salary, etc so you can bring a whole range of people.

And they keep innovating in the space. They asses what they need and tweak the program accordingly.

Re: H-1B visa shift may favor tech companies

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you enforce that at a govt level when companies okay with it? Why didn't your company ask for interviews of contractors? We are seeing a free market failure here that is better fixed by companies rather than complicated and cumbersome regulation. How will USCIS and consulate officers be able to do a better job determining if someone is suitable to work in a company than the company themselves? Why should tax d…

We obviously had to let these people go. A director was also later let go because it turned out he was getting freebies under the table by the contracting company. We hire an external company to send us people because they have supposed to have vetted them. We pay for that service. This isn't just a company problem. Feel free to call the company lazy all you want, but why is someone who has no expertise in an area an…

So looks like the free market solution already worked in your case. You can have the govt administer TOEFL for everyone but companies can do it right now, asking the contractor that only people that pass TOEFL be allowed to work on the project.

What social system burden? H1Bs are ineligible for unemployment benefits even though they are forced to pay for state unemployment insurance. Ineligible for food stamps because they don't have a green card and getting one will take atleast a decade of working. They pay social security taxes but are ineligible for SS unless they keep paying into it for about 10 years and are older than 65. Ineligible till they're 65 for Medicaid even though they pay Medicaid taxes. If they leave the country before that age they get no benefits.

The only burden they may cause if they get very sick or in an accident and get taken to the emergency hospital where they have to legally treat them. You want a society where a fellow human is dying on the roads because you don't want to save a few cents per year for it in taxes because they were born in the wrong place? You want the ambulance to check their papers and finances before administering first aid?

Are there reports of people coming in on work visas and then becoming a public charge? I've seen several people just leave the country if they get laid off and can't find a job. There are much better opportunities and families back home for them than being essentially homeless in the US. Perhaps some start working at gas stations temporarily and the like.

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