Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate • Hacker News Board

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#131

Post by bluGill » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:01 PM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #118

The risk of eviction, meanwhile, can be roughly measured by the percentage of people’s incomes that they spend on shelter each month. As of 2015, 17 percent of Americans spent half or more of their incomes on rent. This is why we (here in the US) need to address housing. And I don't know what term to use. "Affordable housing" is the term I want to default to, but that gets misinterpreted by people and ends up being a…

Adam Smith observed years ago that cost of housing tends to eat up most people's pay raises. Which is to say if you can afford more you get more.

Of course there are limits. Everybody has a point where their house is big enough for them and there are no better areas to move to (or the better areas are out of reach). Then they improve it for lack of anything else to to with their money.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#132

Post by 2bitencryption » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:04 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #123

michaelchisari wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. Also, cigarettes are an appetite suppressant and in many places are cheaper than food. Food stamps are hardly comprehensive. Cheaper, that is, until it all catches up to you medically. One thing I've learned in m…

> Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. It's inexplicable when there are alternative phones available for 1/10 the cost. Why would you choose to take on a $40/mo expense when you could buy an entire fully functioning low end Android phone for $40? >…

What if the iPhones make them happy, and your Nokia 520 would not? What if they're just pursuing their happiness? What if the value of that happiness is more than the value they could have saved with a budget junker phone?

What if their lives are not very happy, but this one thing makes them happy? Is it worth it then? I would argue yes.

This reminds me of that infamous Fox News talking point: "Look at these people, living in poverty, and yet they still have microwaves in their kitchen! Maybe if they weren't living beyond their means, they wouldn't be in the slums!"

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#133

Post by User23 » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:06 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #50

User23 wrote: post #32

Poverty is not a disease. It's not a malady that can be treated or cured. It is a consequence of many factors, but above all it is primarily a consequence, not a cause. What causes poverty? Well like any other widespread social phenomenon, the causes are varied. Crime is an obvious one. Poor decision making is another. For example, a seemingly absurd 70% of windfall recipients go broke[1]. It's evident that the major…

I generally agree with you, but I'm somewhat convinced windfalls are hard to manage for both rich and poor. This is because it has less to do with poor decision making and more to do with the new target on your back. You are now a wounded sheep with hungry predators all around you (in the form of family, friends, thieves, lawyers, etc). I first ran across this idea when I read a reddit thread mentioning Jack Whittake…

There is a great post in that thread telling you exactly what to do. Step 1 is hire a partner level attorney in a major law firm who specializes in Trusts and Estates before you do anything else.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#134

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:08 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #96

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard anyone refer to 20%+ interest as cheap credit until now.

Get an unsecured line of credit at your bank for a lot less than 20%. Or find one of those credit cards with 0% APR for the first 12 months.

Generally hard to do with no current income. Or don't they check?

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#135

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:14 PM UTC

reidjs wrote: post #119

loco5niner wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Being able to send the same emojis to communicate effectively and having blue bubbles is a lot more valuable than you might think That's pretty hard to believe.

I thought so too for a long time, but I have met a woman who confused in me that she will not date men if they have an Android phone. I doubt she’s the only one.

Hope you didn't ask her for a second date.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#136

Post by samd » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:16 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #123

michaelchisari wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. Also, cigarettes are an appetite suppressant and in many places are cheaper than food. Food stamps are hardly comprehensive. Cheaper, that is, until it all catches up to you medically. One thing I've learned in m…

> Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. It's inexplicable when there are alternative phones available for 1/10 the cost. Why would you choose to take on a $40/mo expense when you could buy an entire fully functioning low end Android phone for $40? >…

How much do you have to save on your phone bill before you can buy a house?

The difference between a cheap Android and an old iPhone isn't going to be enough to buy a home, or provide food for the family every day, or pay for (or off) an education, or pay for medical expenses, or buy a reliable car, or any of the other truly expensive things that those with wealth take for granted.

Judging the spending habits of the poor on small luxuries is a common way we shift the blame of poverty onto the poor. It allows the rich to feel better about themselves and about the society they've built.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#137

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:17 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #123

michaelchisari wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. Also, cigarettes are an appetite suppressant and in many places are cheaper than food. Food stamps are hardly comprehensive. Cheaper, that is, until it all catches up to you medically. One thing I've learned in m…

> Having an iPhone isn't inexplicable. You can finance or lease a phone for $30-$40 a month. And given the extraordinary advantages having a smartphone provides, it would be inexplicable if they did not do so. It's inexplicable when there are alternative phones available for 1/10 the cost. Why would you choose to take on a $40/mo expense when you could buy an entire fully functioning low end Android phone for $40? >…

Same. I make good money, I have cheap Motorola Android phone and a $12/month talk/ text plan. It's fine for email, surfing, YouTube, etc. (on wifi; there's no mobile data, but free WiFi is easy to find)

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#138

Post by topspin » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:21 PM UTC

forrealfreedom wrote: post #121

forrealfreedom wrote: post #64

"It should also strive to measure how secure people feel". So now were basing poverty on feelings. I can't even say how ridiculous this sounds.

Seeing as I'm being down-voted, I figured I should respond. We cannot measure anything without quantifiable measurements. Feelings cannot be quantified. This was my point.

Pollsters routinely measure how people feel about one thing or another. The results have substantial impact on policy and positions of leaders. Your point simply isn't very good.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#139

Post by someone7x » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:23 PM UTC

pathseeker wrote: post #81

someone7x wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were making the argument and affirming that they were discriminating based on political affiliation, in an attempt to show they were not discriminating based on race. It was a conscious legal strategy to admit this. Wow. Can't be racial prejudice if its already political prejudice. Reminds me of the court scene in New Jack City where the Wesley Snipes confesses to being a foot soldier and therefore he can't be…

>Wow. Can't be racial prejudice if its already political prejudice. It can, but it's not in many cases. I also know lots of conservatives who are not the strawman racists people on the left like to attack. They really only care that people don't vote in left-wing people. Keep in mind that suppressing the Democrat vote will dis-proportionally affect black people (as well as poor people, etc), but that doesn't mean the…

I think you misunderstand me. It’s not that it’s a veneer, it’s that the veneer is tolerated despite resulting in voter suppression.

Voter suppression should be a universal bad in a democracy no? It’s not only bad when done for racist ends.

Re: Poverty in America: Greater Than Statistics Indicate

#140

Post by munk-a » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 11:29 PM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #39

lotsofpulp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard anyone refer to 20%+ interest as cheap credit until now.

This may surprise you, but many people have high limit credit cards with APRs well below 20%, some even well below 10%. If you have great credit then you can get loans and credit pretty cheap.

If you're in a position to secure one of those pleasant credit cards is it likely you'd be one of the people relying on a credit card as a sole means to survive a sudden layoff? I think you're assuming that because it's easy for people when they're doing well it must always be easy.