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Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

arstechnica.com

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Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#31

Post by all2 »

gisely wrote: post #20
subway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public suffers anytime knowledge is lost.

Will the public suffer from not knowing what this comment said a century from now?

Yes. Already massive amounts of data have been lost to the grind of technology forging 'forward'.

As we lose the information, we lose context, and without context 'facts' about the past begin to lose meaning to the present reader.

History, and the stories we have, is/are mankind's most important asset. Without the context of our past as a species, we lose the ability to navigate into the future effectively (without crossing into unfortunate places again, like world war, or slavery, etc.).

We have nothing but stories. Without those, we are nothing.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#32

Post by paxy »

merlincorey wrote: post #30
VikingCoder wrote: post #29

First, what's the legal status of this code? Second, should we do an immediate crowd funding campaign to purchase this, and make the contents available to everyone?

> First, what's the legal status of this code? Apparently it is currently owned by a German entertainment company: "Realize that, while you’ll have my data as of the day of Larry 1’s creation, you will not own the intellectual property rights to the game, the code, the art, or anything else," Lowe says in the LSL1 listing. "Nor do I. The IP rights were sold over and over again, until they are now owned by a German ga…

Correct me if I'm wrong but he can't legally sell these disks then right (at least before wiping them first)?

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#33

Post by DonHopkins »

dstroot wrote: post #7

Leisure Suit Larry was the first game I played as a kid that felt “adult” and “naughty”. Somehow that made it irresistible to my younger self. This brings back some great memories. Thanks for sharing!

I played Softporn Adventure on my Apple ][, which Leisure Suit Larry was based on.

There was a casino that let you bet negative amounts at the blackjack table, then lose on purpose to make lots of money!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softporn_Adventure

Then there was "Interlude: The Ultimate Experience". It came with a paperback book full of naughty stuff, which my pirate friend gave me a xeroxed copy of to go with the floppy disk.

https://boingboing.net/2012/08/10/sexy-video-game-from-the-a...

You'd load the game on the computer, run it, answer some questions, and it would tell you and your (probably imaginary) partner: "For a good time, turn to page 74 for Interlude No. 82 - Caveman Caper!"

Looks like this PDF has the table of contents, but it's missing all the "good" parts:

http://www.brutaldeluxe.fr/projects/cassettes/syntonic/k7_sy...

And I'll never forget the HyperCard Smut Stack! ("ping!")

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#34

Post by DonHopkins »

Reedx wrote: post #26

Anyone know the odds of the floppies still working? I'm guessing some will and some won't. They must be nearing or past expiration date...

Well the Elephant Memory Systems floppy disks claim to "Never Forget"!

https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/s-l16...

https://youtu.be/v7AgSapZAi8?t=500

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#35

Post by TheDong »

merb wrote: post #19
TheDong wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's still copyrighted and so cannot be legally displayed or distributed by the internet archive for another ~65 years (95 years from publication for copyright to expire). Many of us won't be alive to see this code legally. The copyright period could also increase again if the law retroactively increases it again.

how does it work when the copyright is unknown or what happens if a company/trademark folded (that might have held the copyright) does the company who reastablishes the brand get the ip?! I mean if the game was published under Sierra Entertainment 19xx and the company folded, is it still legally unforceable, even if the new company is now activision?

If a copyright owner dies (without their IP being inherited) or the company dies (and its ip is not sold or kept by some individual of the company), then the material effectively enters the public domain. Note, this is only 'effectively' because it is still possible someone does have the IP and you were simply not aware. It's also possible the person who owns the copyright isn't even aware they own it, but it can still later be discovered and enforced.

In practice, it is very difficult to verify when either of those events occur. I expect Sierra Entertainment's IP has been kept alive, even if the company itself died at any point in the past.

It's almost always safer to just wait the full duration for copyright to expire and it to enter real public domain.

If you're unable to safely wait around 100 years to legally access the material, well, that sucks I guess. Copyright is meant to ensure the public gets access to such material, and it's not the government's fault people don't live over 100 years to enjoy material made in their lifetimes.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#36

Post by [deleted] »

ru999gol wrote: post #22
TheDong wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's still copyrighted and so cannot be legally displayed or distributed by the internet archive for another ~65 years (95 years from publication for copyright to expire). Many of us won't be alive to see this code legally. The copyright period could also increase again if the law retroactively increases it again.

I rather somebody has it in some trusted hand even if they can't release it for another 65 years, rather than lost forever. Preservation of human culture/knowledge is more important than copyright, I know a foreign concept most people will be to ignorant about to agree with.

[deleted]

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#37

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

all2 wrote: post #31
gisely wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will the public suffer from not knowing what this comment said a century from now?

Yes. Already massive amounts of data have been lost to the grind of technology forging 'forward'. As we lose the information, we lose context, and without context 'facts' about the past begin to lose meaning to the present reader. History, and the stories we have, is/are mankind's most important asset. Without the context of our past as a species, we lose the ability to navigate into the future effectively (without c…

I think that raises an interesting problem - if you want to look back 1000 years the sources are scarce, and largely composed of the thoughts of the educated or the wealthy - people who could read and write and store these items.

500 years from now we're going to be faced with a totally different problem - if a user wants to learn about the year 2018 where do they start? Official documents will appear to be stored beside the thoughts of Kardashians besides trolls. It'll be very hard to parse through any information to get an actual sense of what was happening.

I mean, it's the same problem, using the primary sources to try and figure out the truth, but it'll be the opposite problem as we have now.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#38

Post by jfoster »

TheDong wrote: post #35
merb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how does it work when the copyright is unknown or what happens if a company/trademark folded (that might have held the copyright) does the company who reastablishes the brand get the ip?! I mean if the game was published under Sierra Entertainment 19xx and the company folded, is it still legally unforceable, even if the new company is now activision?

If a copyright owner dies (without their IP being inherited) or the company dies (and its ip is not sold or kept by some individual of the company), then the material effectively enters the public domain. Note, this is only 'effectively' because it is still possible someone does have the IP and you were simply not aware. It's also possible the person who owns the copyright isn't even aware they own it, but it can sti…

It's just law. There's also a practical side to this. You could go ahead, and then if a copyright holder emerges, you have to settle it with them somehow. That could end really badly or it could end up being not much of an issue.

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#39

Post by jfoster »

DonHopkins wrote: post #33
dstroot wrote: post #7

Leisure Suit Larry was the first game I played as a kid that felt “adult” and “naughty”. Somehow that made it irresistible to my younger self. This brings back some great memories. Thanks for sharing!

I played Softporn Adventure on my Apple ][, which Leisure Suit Larry was based on. There was a casino that let you bet negative amounts at the blackjack table, then lose on purpose to make lots of money! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softporn_Adventure Then there was "Interlude: The Ultimate Experience". It came with a paperback book full of naughty stuff, which my pirate friend gave me a xeroxed copy of to go with t…

> There was a casino that let you bet negative amounts at the blackjack table, then lose on purpose to make lots of money!

Sounds a bit like one of the early bugs on Amazon.com:

https://youtu.be/-hxX_Q5CnaA

Re: Al Lowe reveals his Sierra source code collection

#40

Post by code_duck »

gisely wrote: post #20
subway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public suffers anytime knowledge is lost.

Will the public suffer from not knowing what this comment said a century from now?

The public would benefit slightly from having the comment as part of the complete conversation, so yes.
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