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Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

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Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#101
post #42
post #36

How will they make sure people don't cheat and eat more anyways? 800 calories a day for an overweight person requires some serious will power.

I found it easier to do via intermittent fasting and then eating all of my calories in one meal per day. Something about completely abstaining from food is easier for me psychologically than having multiple tiny meals and making myself stop eating when I'm not full.

It's also easier for me. I have no problem skipping breakfast and then skipping lunch takes a little willpower but I'm often distracted by work. I have friends who find it easier to eat a big lunch as their only meal. Worth experimenting for each person to find what works best for them.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#102
post #92

About 3 years ago (late 2015 now) I was quite overweight, had a knee injury that limited my mobility (stairs mostly) and had a fasting glucose and post-meal readings that indicated I was nearly pre-diabetic (T2). So, I cut out out all sugary drinks, refined carbs, late night eating (!!) and tried various intermittent fasting / time restricted feeding techniques (5:2, alternate day, one-meal-a-day) and after about 3.5…

Same thing here. Except I also refuse any refined flour, Co sidering it sugar. I only eat whole foods, no milk, very little cheese, barely any meat. Lots of vegetarian meals. Dropped 50+ lbs without much drama. I cycle extensively in the warm summer months.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's why weight loss techniques need to be treated like a new lifestyle, instead of a goal you hit and then finish. I lost 60 lbs a couple of years ago and found that 20 of those had recently crept back on, so I went on another shorter diet to get myself back on track. It's totally doable. You have to be aware and keep correcting.

Nostrums like "treat it like a new lifestyle" are easy to say, but do they actually address the current public health crisis? Proposing actions that, for whatever reason, people don't actually take isn't a useful way to spend time. What's good is what works . And honestly, drugs work today. The likes of the FDA considers them too risky, but I think they're deciding wrong.

>Nostrums

def: A medicine

>drugs work today

....

Seriously though, the problem is that, regardless of cause, we're fat and lazy. Throwing more drugs to take care of diabetes and heart disease is robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I'm watching my boomer parents realize that medicine isn't going to help everything, and they are going to have to be accountable for their help. They've gotten much more physically active and lost weight because they are seeing that my grandfather's heart medication may be stopping the heart attacks but it isn't stopping his diabetes or inability to climb the stairs, and the gamut of surgeries are just making him more and more crippled. A pill won't solve our problems. It may solve the current health crises, but it won't stop the next one. Losing weight, eating better, and being active will solve the whole set of problems.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that once I cut out grains, potatoes, pasta, fruit/sweets, starches and continued to eat beef, chicken, fish, Organ meat, low carb vegetables and foods filled with fat (nuts, cheese, olives, etc) caused a 100lb weight loss that I have kept off over 3 years. This was without any exercise or extra activity. Perhaps I am an outlier.

Worked for me too. Still mad about eating breakfasts of skim milk and unsweetened shredded wheat for years. Now it is whole milk with bacon and eggs every morning.

Whole milk has a lot of carbs. Something folks might want to know if they are trying to reduce carbs.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#105

The 800 calories they are eating doesn't seem terribly healthy: "patients were asked to follow either a ‘home-made’ milk- and fruit-juice-based diet (811 kcal/day, 64 g protein, 132 g carbohydrate, 6 g fat) with a multivitamin/mineral supplement (Forceval® [Alliance]), or a micronutrient-replete commercial LELD (832 kcal/day, 87 g protein, 120 g carbohydrate, 12 g fat). I imagine these people are probably staving...…

Generally agreed, but with a caveat: diabetics are at risk of ketoacidosis on low carb diets. They would need to measure their blood ketones and moderate carbohydrate intake to keep their levels down below dangerous thresholds. Personally when I went low carb, I got blood (not urine) ketone levels up into the range that would kill a diabetic quickly, think in the 7.0 range. Even as someone well adapted I regularly hi…

Usually type 1 diabetics (autoimmune, are more at risk for DKA. Type 2 diabetics can definitely be at risk for DKA, especially if insulin-dependent. However, they are at higher risk for hyperosmolar hyperglycemic coma, which is equally frightening.

It's definitely a risk, but not as much if your body is still making insulin to help provide your cells with at least some energy.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#106

When people will realize that carbs are the only non-essential macronutrient? The sports community (especially bodybuilding) knows that for decades. If an athlete says to me that a thing he does to his body work 95% of the time, I would consider to try it, and already did, some things against over-the-counter conventional medicine like this no-carb diet.

Where is the connection you're making between carbs being unnecessary and bodybuilders coming from?

Traditional diets include lots of carbs. Bodybuilders realized early that protein is good for muscle growth. So they started eating tons of protein, and reducing other macronutrients. They realized after a while that carbs can actually be cut out totally and indefinitely (which is not true of protein and fat). They discovered this because nobody else had a reason to try to eat such a strange, protein-focused diet.

At least in modern societies. Of course the Inuit and other far-north peoples have known forever that one can live healthily off essentially nothing but meat.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#107
post #10
post #3

Losing a lot of weight with very low calorie diets is hard, but not regaining it over the next couple of years is next to impossible. Your body will try all the tricks in the book, it will reduce your metabolism to way below that of the person of the same weight, it will amp up your hunger hormones so much that you will think and dream about food 24/7. Only 5 to 7% of people that lose a large amount weight are able t…

Citations for the 5 to 7% would be nice. Here's a meta analysis that states otherwise. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/74/5/579/4737391

I am on mobile and I don't have a root source for the below paragraph, maybe someone can dig it up.

> The statistics for dieters who lose weight rapidly, according to Wellsphere, a website sponsored by Stanford University, is worse. Only 5 percent of people who lose weight on a crash diet will keep the weight off. Crash diets include any unhealthy diet, from severe calorie-restriction diets to diets that consist of only a few kinds of foods.

Another study showing 5% looks like it was an old study from 1959.

Anyway, there are more modern studies proving the point. And that people gain even more weight back than they started with.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/Dieting-Does-Not-Work-UCLA...

>Several studies indicate that dieting is actually a consistent predictor of future weight gain,” said Janet Tomiyama, a UCLA graduate student of psychology and co-author of the study. One study found that both men and women who participated in formal weight-loss programs gained significantly more weight over a two-year period than those who had not participated in a weight-loss program, she said.

>Another study, which examined a variety of lifestyle factors and their relationship to changes in weight in more than 19,000 healthy older men over a four-year period, found that “one of the best predictors of weight gain over the four years was having lost weight on a diet at some point during the years before the study started,” Tomiyama said. In several studies, people in control groups who did not diet were not that much worse off — and in many cases were better off — than those who did diet, she said.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#108
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodybuilders eat plenty of carbs.

No they don't. A bodybuilding diet is mostly protein, then certain fats, then starchy carbs at the right time (breakfast and post-workout).

Umm, no. If you're eating 1.5 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight (which is on the high end) and you weigh 200 pounds, that's about 1200 calories from protein, out of diet that's likely 3000 - 3500 calories. A common recommendation I see is for about 20-25% to come from fat, and the remaining from carbs, preferably complex carbs.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#109
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .there should be some mandate on parents to “treat” their child with diet You're considering forcing parents to change, presumably with the threat of taking their children away. But consider this, in the past type-2 diabetes was extremely rare in children. Why is it now common? Are parents just worse? Or are terrible diets more appealing? Maybe the sources of those terrible diets would be a better place to start im…

Well luckily the US is not a vacuum and you can see the pattern of the explosion of type 2 and other chronic conditions in other countries, even in Okinawa which used to have the best life expectancy but now is riddled with chronic diseases and type 2. It’s not the mystery you suggest.

I'm not saying it's a mystery I'm saying it's the fault of the food industry and they should be the ones forced to change.

Re: Type 2 diabetes: NHS to offer 800-calorie diet treatment

#110
My mother suffered Type-2 diabetes for almost 20 years. I put her on an extremely strict raw food diet three months ago and stopped injecting insulin. Her fasting blood sugar level is now in the 90-110 mg/dL range. I now give her some steamed potatoes also.

I too follow the same diet to give her company.

Elimination of oil, sugar and dairy has helped, I believe. She is a vegetarian, so flesh was never in the picture. I do not have to restrict calories with raw food. Eat as much as you can.

No juicing, however. That is a totally not allowed.

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