Earlier quoted context omitted.
And this is how science fiction authors have been shooting themselves in the foot. The golden age of science fiction, the era when science fiction was most popular with the public, occurred when most of that fiction had a positive outlook on the future. I don't think that's coincidence. To any aspiring authors out there: If you want to stand out and be successful, write stories that show a path to successfully overco…
The difference is that this future was never delivered. Pessimism is expected after that. Worse, showing how obstacles are overcome and not seeing it applied in real world is soul crushing. This is often because politics turned from initially being a way of solving problems to a popularity ascend machismo contest - and it infects everything.
How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
61–70 of 127 posts
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#62This is very topical. If i had a dollar every time someone used Black Mirror as an argument against technology...
It's important to both suspend disbelief to enjoy fiction from reality and take fiction with a big grain of salt that it's often missing considerations of reality. It's when people confuse and conflate fiction with reality minus critical thinking that hobgoblins of the mind get let loose to draw unrealistic conclusions. Reality and fiction slightly intersect as a fuzzy Venn diagram, to a degree, but their more often…
Ironically, this happens in the utopian case with Star Trek, which gets invoked as an example of a valid and functioning "post scarcity" society based on fabrication and automation, despite the technology in that series being essentially magic.
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#63Interesting. "In the totalitarian-dystopian genre, the prototypical narrative content elements — e.g., setting, character, plot, and story morals — are relatively clear and consistent; thus, they are “filled in” according to widely shared genre conventions." Writers can thus write in such worlds without extensive world-building. It's like grinding out police procedurals or zombie novels. Not every writer can build wo…
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#64Is anyone else sick of dystopian stuff? I want to read something where... sure, there are problems, but where people are out there doing difficult, adventurous and good things. Something maybe even kind of motivational. Or at best, just nice escapist stories without all the doom and gloom. If I want to read about stressful, bad, evil things, I'll pick up a newspaper.
I remember an article, whose title essentially summed up my view on this space - "Star Trek: The Next Generation Was the Last Sci-Fi Show Hopeful About the Future"[0]. I grew up on ST:TNG, and I sorely miss the ideas communicated there. That people can organize for common good. That such organizations, even large and bureaucratic, can be very competent and effective. That individuals can strive to better themselves, both morally and in terms of competence. That the default assumption about your colleagues/teammates is that they're competent in what they do. That we can all cooperate, instead of defect.
Speaking of competence, I wish another cliché would die too. That the world is filled with idiots. It's also very popular, and I also destructive to the fabric of society. But I'll leave elaborating on it to David Brin[1].
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[0] - https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a31206/star-trek-th...
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's important to both suspend disbelief to enjoy fiction from reality and take fiction with a big grain of salt that it's often missing considerations of reality. It's when people confuse and conflate fiction with reality minus critical thinking that hobgoblins of the mind get let loose to draw unrealistic conclusions. Reality and fiction slightly intersect as a fuzzy Venn diagram, to a degree, but their more often…
>It's important to both suspend disbelief to enjoy fiction from reality and take fiction with a big grain of salt that it's often missing considerations of reality. Ironically, this happens in the utopian case with Star Trek, which gets invoked as an example of a valid and functioning "post scarcity" society based on fabrication and automation, despite the technology in that series being essentially magic.
But I think first and foremost, Star Trek is being brought as an example of post-scarcity so often because it's pretty much the only story that presented such society and reached general audience. It's pretty much a lone beacon of hope in the sea of dystopia.
Still, I agree with your point. Star Trek is a nice dream, but not a good source of information for reasoning about reality.
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would argue that the main reason Star Trek has had such enduring popularity in spite of its failings is that it is a rare example of utopian science fiction in television. (Deep Space 9 took a dystopian detour by focusing on several alien societies that were held up as "bad" examples. I'm also withholding judgement on Star Trek Discovery.) As for written science fiction, I really can't think of anything recent othe…
Thanks. I think this might be the motivation to give watching Star Trek a go.
The original series wasn't much at all, it was basically the US Navy in space. It does have a lot of moralizing and positivity, but the future depicted is also very much a product of its time. I wouldn't describe it as Utopian because the Federation as depicted is still clearly not intended to be seen as ideal.
TNG was a constant struggle between Gene Roddenberry to showcase his Utopian ideals and the writers to actually have some human drama (which he forbade, because humans were supposed to have evolved beyond that,) so it's the most optimistic of the series, most of the time, sometimes (IMHO) to its own detriment. One of the most hated characters in Star Trek, Wesley Crusher, was Gene Roddenberry's vision of the Ubermensch, but he came across as an insufferably perfect Gary Stu.
Further series deviate from the Utopian vision with... mixed results. I personally think DS9 is the best of them because, being an arc-driven series, it gets to flesh out its characters and cultures to a degree other series couldn't. However it's also a series about how a self-described Utopian society can abandon its ideals and morals when faced with a brutal adversary.
I think it's best to approach Star Trek as sci-fi (light on science more often than not) drama first and morality play second.
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#67> that violence and illegal activities may be both legitimate and necessary to pursue justice. Dystopian fiction appears to subtly expand the political imagination of viewers and readers to encompass a range of scenarios outside the normal realm of democratic politics, and what people then consider reasonable and thinkable appears to expand accordingly. America was founded on a revolution, and often changing the syst…
> The truth is that these days revolution can only be televised. And that is itself cathartic for both the author and for the audience. One thing I notice, apart from all the stuff that outright glorifies militarism and sadism, or makes serious concerns seem ridiculous: even when it's "good guys in a bad situation", even if they end up "winning", so often what's displayed thoroughly and realistically, with great atte…
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20180525-every-story-in-the...
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Destroying cultures and languages in the name of progress doesn't really empower people. Languages don't get destroyed by rearing children in isolation so they're left unable to speak. Languages die when their population shifts over to a language with more to offer. (Generally, the ability to participate in a larger market.) You can go pretty much anywhere rare languages are spoken and hear parents tell you they ho…
I agree with you wholeheartedly until you stated this: > (Generally, the ability to participate in a larger market.) It all hinges on your use of market : I would have written society . It's extremely telling that nowadays ‘market’ and ‘society’ have become almost synonymous, not because markets have subsumed the role of societies at large, but because monetary exchanges have become the de facto be-all and end-all of…
The contrast is live in the US in deaf communities. Deaf community leaders have a strong and unconflicted opinion on surgery to restore the hearing of deaf children: it's bad, it's a denial of the inherent worth of deaf people, and you should be ashamed for even thinking that a deaf child's hearing needs to be "fixed".
They think that way because they have a direct personal interest in the size of the deaf community: the larger the community is, the more power community leaders wield. But they have zero interest in the well-being of any specific child, and less in the well-being of a child who isn't even part of their community.
In contrast, the deaf parents of deaf children are often very conflicted. They know a child is better off being able to hear. But the child is unlikely to participate much in the deaf community (important to the parents) if its hearing is restored.
But still, I think it's hard to argue that it would be an example of disempowerment to exterminate sign language by restoring everyone's hearing so they can learn a spoken language and communicate with the people around them.
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#69Lately I have seen term Solarpunk on reddits, tumblrs and scuttlebutt thrown around. I think people start to realize we need positive ideas for future. Solarpunk is future where we make it, clean energy wins, automation will empower us instead of enslaving us. Maybe its time for some of that.
Re: How Dystopian Fiction Shapes Political Attitudes
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Destroying cultures and languages in the name of progress doesn't really empower people. Languages don't get destroyed by rearing children in isolation so they're left unable to speak. Languages die when their population shifts over to a language with more to offer. (Generally, the ability to participate in a larger market.) You can go pretty much anywhere rare languages are spoken and hear parents tell you they ho…
I agree with you wholeheartedly until you stated this: > (Generally, the ability to participate in a larger market.) It all hinges on your use of market : I would have written society . It's extremely telling that nowadays ‘market’ and ‘society’ have become almost synonymous, not because markets have subsumed the role of societies at large, but because monetary exchanges have become the de facto be-all and end-all of…
My anecdote:
I have enough people around me (literally several millions in my city) that speak my language. All books, movies and TV shows I ever wanted to see are available translated in very high quality. There is so much original content that a lot of people simply don't even crave foreign content, that includes any science you would think of (and our countrymen are the pioneers of many), programming guides etc. The sole purpose of learning English in my country as viewed by the government (that sets up schools) is to take advantage of foreign profit and then return back home with the money and participate in our society, and that view reflects the wishes of the majority of our society - we prefer to interact with our people because the people and especially the language "make sense" (Czech language is regarded for its internal consistency and hard rules combined with freeform sentences - that makes the language a form of wild art where you can completely change logical meaning of the whole 10-sentence block with a single tone pronounced differently, if you wish to do that).
This purpose ("to be worthy on the job market") is said to you numerous times (I heard it at least once a week the whole 12 years I had English class) your whole childhood by your parents (who truly believe that our culture is big enough and English is not for that purpose), youe teachers, your school principal and of course the government.