Twilight of the Taj Mahal • Hacker News Board

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#71

Post by kamaal » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

msiyer wrote: post #68

drieddust wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to moralize when you don't know where the shoe bites. It might look decent to you from the outside but even decently paid struggle to keep up because of the following factors: 1. India does not have a social safety net so every man or family is for themselves. This just forces people to give first priority to accumulation of money. 2. Even a decent life style in India is not affordable unless you are a bus…

> You salary is taxed at 35% effectively This is what is directly visible. Less than 3% of the population pays income tax while tax is deducted at source for the salaried class: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/why... If you dare to save, the interest earned is taxed. If you try to spend, the spending is taxed - buy a house or a car or a motorcycle, all luxury items by Indian government's stan…

That is why the indirect taxes(fuel), other sales etc taxes are so high.

There is also a suggestion that they do away income taxes completely, and may be tax petrol by additional 30 rupees/liter.

>>The landlords are fleecing tenants.

As of now it takes savings of a life time to afford a home in big cities. Its tenants who are getting the better end of the deal.

You have to become a land lord if you are saving up for grandchildren(many do).

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#72

Post by drieddust » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

msiyer wrote: post #68

drieddust wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is easy to moralize when you don't know where the shoe bites. It might look decent to you from the outside but even decently paid struggle to keep up because of the following factors: 1. India does not have a social safety net so every man or family is for themselves. This just forces people to give first priority to accumulation of money. 2. Even a decent life style in India is not affordable unless you are a bus…

> You salary is taxed at 35% effectively This is what is directly visible. Less than 3% of the population pays income tax while tax is deducted at source for the salaried class: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/why... If you dare to save, the interest earned is taxed. If you try to spend, the spending is taxed - buy a house or a car or a motorcycle, all luxury items by Indian government's stan…

Completely agree. I know people who claim their Net Revenue is less than the amount I pay in taxes and yet they have bigger cars, keep multiple servants, and enjoy foreign holidays.

Under this system everyone would like to hoard as much money as possible. Even if it results in squeezing the others unfairly.

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#73

Post by kamaal » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 8:57 AM UTC

ihtjmbbc123 wrote: post #61

ameen wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your handle says it all - I hate Taj Mahal BBC, and your comment reads like a bullet list from a government apologist. Addressing basic needs are not massive progress, the government is expected to do these things in response to the growing taxation, it's not a favor but their duty. India's whole problem is mismanagement and corruption, and the current culture placing profiteering over everything else and the parent…

ih is internet hindu a label created for us by marxists

Whoa!

A handle made 3 hours back, just to reply to comments.

How do you get paid? Per hour? Per comment?

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#74

Post by kamaal » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 9:01 AM UTC

jhacker123 wrote: post #70

msiyer wrote: post #44

The monument is being neglected. The current government has an attitude which is very similar to ”not invented here" whereby anything not created by Hindus is not to be valued: https://www.firstpost.com/india/yogi-adiyanath-govt-in-uttar... Hinduism is not a religion like Islam or Christianity. People in India behave as if it is. Our past was glorious. It, however, cannot guarantee a similar future unless people wake…

> government has an attitude which is very similar to ”not invented here" whereby anything not created by Hindus is not to be valued Curious, what are list which is created by Hindus which is well maintained and valued by government?

Another handle created merely minutes ago merely to reply to comments.

How frequently do you people monitor forums like HN? How many people work on this? Must be a dream job to get paid to read HN all day.

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#75

Post by drieddust » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 9:05 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #71

msiyer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You salary is taxed at 35% effectively This is what is directly visible. Less than 3% of the population pays income tax while tax is deducted at source for the salaried class: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/why... If you dare to save, the interest earned is taxed. If you try to spend, the spending is taxed - buy a house or a car or a motorcycle, all luxury items by Indian government's stan…

That is why the indirect taxes(fuel), other sales etc taxes are so high. There is also a suggestion that they do away income taxes completely, and may be tax petrol by additional 30 rupees/liter. >>The landlords are fleecing tenants. As of now it takes savings of a life time to afford a home in big cities. Its tenants who are getting the better end of the deal. You have to become a land lord if you are saving up for…

Most landlords have owned properties through inheritance which suddenly jumped in value when business grew around them. This in turn happened because Governments were complicit.

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#76

Post by kamaal » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 9:17 AM UTC

drieddust wrote: post #75

kamaal wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is why the indirect taxes(fuel), other sales etc taxes are so high. There is also a suggestion that they do away income taxes completely, and may be tax petrol by additional 30 rupees/liter. >>The landlords are fleecing tenants. As of now it takes savings of a life time to afford a home in big cities. Its tenants who are getting the better end of the deal. You have to become a land lord if you are saving up for…

Most landlords have owned properties through inheritance which suddenly jumped in value when business grew around them. This in turn happened because Governments were complicit.

Yes, that's called investing.

You can start now. Or wait for the next 20 years, and complain that others did and you didn't.

Also a lot of middle class can and does invest. It's the people with inability to defer instant gratification or just lazy are the ones at peril here.

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#77

Post by jhacker123 » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 9:21 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #74

jhacker123 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> government has an attitude which is very similar to ”not invented here" whereby anything not created by Hindus is not to be valued Curious, what are list which is created by Hindus which is well maintained and valued by government?

Another handle created merely minutes ago merely to reply to comments. How frequently do you people monitor forums like HN? How many people work on this? Must be a dream job to get paid to read HN all day.

Yeah, i'm new register user. why are you so pissed off, HN community not well come new user?

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#78

Post by drieddust » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 9:41 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #76

drieddust wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most landlords have owned properties through inheritance which suddenly jumped in value when business grew around them. This in turn happened because Governments were complicit.

Yes, that's called investing. You can start now. Or wait for the next 20 years, and complain that others did and you didn't. Also a lot of middle class can and does invest. It's the people with inability to defer instant gratification or just lazy are the ones at peril here.

You are redefining investing. It is investing when you are deliberately holding on to something with an expectation of higher returns in future. You are implying that ancestors of these landlords knew business will suddenly bump up in late 90s.

It's sheer luck,government complacency and nothing else. If you want to call it investing, fine with me.

> Also a lot of middle class can and does invest.

Yes the little they can save gets invested in already inflated properties or gold. Average middle class would not like to venture our into investing in unknown because they do not have the will to lose the little they have saved.

> It's the people with inability to defer instant gratification or just lazy are the ones at peril here.

You think having a car, living close to school and work in good neighborhood is instant gratification. I have lived in shady neighborhoods with narrow dusty street without any trees and boy it's not fun at all. If you think moving out of those places is called instant gratification then it's hard to argue.

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#79

Post by msiyer » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 9:50 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #71

msiyer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You salary is taxed at 35% effectively This is what is directly visible. Less than 3% of the population pays income tax while tax is deducted at source for the salaried class: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/policy/why... If you dare to save, the interest earned is taxed. If you try to spend, the spending is taxed - buy a house or a car or a motorcycle, all luxury items by Indian government's stan…

That is why the indirect taxes(fuel), other sales etc taxes are so high. There is also a suggestion that they do away income taxes completely, and may be tax petrol by additional 30 rupees/liter. >>The landlords are fleecing tenants. As of now it takes savings of a life time to afford a home in big cities. Its tenants who are getting the better end of the deal. You have to become a land lord if you are saving up for…

Income tax is ridiculous. Especially in India with the stats I presented.

How exactly are tenants getting the better end of the deal? It is the tenenat who:

- pays the rent which is arbitrarily high and increases every year thereby offsetting the puny salary hikes

- bears the burden of excess tax because the landlord refuses to pay taxes on money earned from rent

- has nothing to show for the money spent in rent

- loses a large part or whole of the "security desposit" when shifting.

Taxes are high because a minister decides to charter a plane and fly thousands of miles to meet another minister for 30 minutes. Taxes are high because when they meet they decide to exchange bouquets that cost tens of thousands of rupees. I can go on and on...

Re: Twilight of the Taj Mahal

#80

Post by kamaal » Fri, Nov 30, 2018, 10:19 AM UTC

drieddust wrote: post #78

kamaal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's called investing. You can start now. Or wait for the next 20 years, and complain that others did and you didn't. Also a lot of middle class can and does invest. It's the people with inability to defer instant gratification or just lazy are the ones at peril here.

You are redefining investing. It is investing when you are deliberately holding on to something with an expectation of higher returns in future. You are implying that ancestors of these landlords knew business will suddenly bump up in late 90s. It's sheer luck,government complacency and nothing else. If you want to call it investing, fine with me. > Also a lot of middle class can and does invest. Yes the little they…

>>You are implying that ancestors of these landlords

'Ancestors' makes it feel they are from the 15th century. In reality these are people from 1960s/1970s. In most cities at that time buying a property was a no-brainer investment. There were public sector companies springing up all over the place, and the first round of urbanization was well in progress.

Also you don't even have to go that far, even in the 1990s, during the peak of onsite-money techies in Bangalore were swimming in, most currently high valued properties in the vicinity of ring-road today were available for almost free(Comparative to IT salaries of the day). Like 75 - 200 rupees/psqft.

The real problem is. Property hunting and buying is a long drawn process, that spawns over a year. Everything from scouting for opportunities, to negotiating, getting legal work done, raising money through loans, paying taxes, registration, long term care and maintenance are high effort consuming activities, that will drain your energy and stretch you will power to water film thinness.

Most of the crowd either does not have what it takes to think in terms of such long durations of time. Or even if they do, they have to undergo that process several times to build a decent portfolio of properties. That means weekends, and other holidays all go away towards this. This is above beyond any other maintenance you have to do. That is far away from opportunities being invisible. These are issues related to personal enterprise.

That's one big reason why Mutual funds have taken off so well.

But big returns await for those people who can scale the real estate mountain even today.

>>If you think moving out of those places is called instant gratification then it's hard to argue.

The good part is you will get what you want. So everybody will get what they want.

If some one wants properties as investment they will get it, and if some one wants to spend that money for a good quality of living they will get that too.

Those decisions have consequences. You just have to understand them and be fine with it.