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Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

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211–220 of 244 posts

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grading just gets kicked down the road. Now, because we don't trust your credentials, we give you a coding exam, that is effectively a grade. Likewise, an open secret is that college work is a simulation of the workplace. Those college students who develop through practice the ability to turn in work on time that makes their teachers happy, will also be able to do the same in the workplace. If you give up the cha…

> Likewise, an open secret is that college work is a simulation of the workplace. I don't think this is the case, and hasn't been for a long time. Assuming you're not looking at graduate classes college is largely a game of keeping your head down and doing the work you need to when you need to and the minimizing effort other than that. Cramming is totally a viable option as the metrics for success in college are tota…

In my view treating college as largely a game or whose metric is sheer survival, is wasting money, or more likely, paying to support the students who are getting something else out of it. This is not necessarily a personal judgment, because there may be people who are predisposed to see everything as a game, but who deserve to get the best education possible anyway.

Here's my stupid parable. Give two people shovels and send them into a mine. One of them comes back with a bag of gold. The other comes back with an intense hangover. What's broken, the shovel or the mine?

Colleges, despite the image of paternalism, are actually designed to let you fail. People will leak clues on how to survive, but are less likely to tell you explicitly how to succeed. But everybody has the same chance of getting a degree in something. As a result, the people who benefit from the signaling and branding of the college outnumber the people who got a good education out of it, creating the impression that college is largely about signaling and branding. But college is really about deciding what you want to get out of it.

There are doubtlessly many things wrong with college education today, but in spite of that, taking college at face value and pursuing it in a relatively straightforward way may still be a better strategy than trying to figure out what game to play in order to survive.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#212
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a well designed evaluation instrument along with critical interpretation of the results and comments can be an invaluable tool for instructors who want to improve their teaching. An instructor who actually wants to improve their teaching solicits and engages with feedback from the very first day of the term and doesn't wait until end of term evaluations roll in. Why? Because end of term evaluations, by definition,…

That's not easy at all. Instructors design their course typically before the first class starts. Trying to incorporate suggestions from students -- students who have no experience teaching -- is just going to lead to disaster.

Feedback isn't for suggestions, it's for understanding problems that your students are having. If you aren't normalizing the process of students telling you when they are struggling, then they either won't tell you when they're struggling at all or you'll only find out too late. It could be pedagogical stuff like they don't understand your explanations, or it could be emotional things like they're having panic attacks and don't know what to do, or it could be simple technical details like what fonts you use on your slides. And if you know right away then you can do something right away and actually help someone.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a well designed evaluation instrument along with critical interpretation of the results and comments can be an invaluable tool for instructors who want to improve their teaching. An instructor who actually wants to improve their teaching solicits and engages with feedback from the very first day of the term and doesn't wait until end of term evaluations roll in. Why? Because end of term evaluations, by definition,…

nitpick: An instructor may genuinely want to improve their teaching but may only think to solicit feedback until the end of term or may default to end-of-term evals because they do not have a go-to system for soliciting feedback iteratively. (Unless you define "want" as "what the behavior of this system would lead to" and thereby pretend that no human act is an error)

You're right that they may want to do something without knowing where to start. I amend my "will do" into "should do" with the caveat that perhaps a person who doesn't know this shouldn't be teaching yet.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#214
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America teachers get tenure so your feedback has no impact on them improving. Also if you look at literally any study of them TAs for harder courses get harsher ratings, they get harsher ratings from weaker students. I also spent a number of years as a TA I can say anecdotally that is my exact first hand experience - good reviews in easy courses like graphics, atrocious scores in design of concurrent systems. In f…

> they by design don’t provide prior exams Do they reuse past questions forever? That is a bad practice. Each term's exams need to be equivalent but different.

The way to ensure that they’re different is to require all prior assessment be publicly available - if someone having access to an old exam gives them an unfair advantage over people who don’t then that’s bad design.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#215
post #190

This strikes me as a very whiny article, not worthy of publishing in the Chronicle. A lifetime of hurt feelings and resentments bubbling up into a rant full of straw men and frankly irresponsible misinformation about the role student evaluations play in instructor assessment. It’s too bad, too, because there certainly are criticisms to be made, and this article hints at some of them. But a well designed evaluation in…

How does a sense of entitlement result in grade inflation? Well, the obvious way is if you pervasively require students evaluations, students systematically evaluate professors based on the grades they received, and these evaluations are used to make staffing and compensation decisions by the administration, incentivizing strategic grading behavior by professors. Solution: stop the evaluations. Even most entitled stu…

The average mark is generally fixed at around 75%. So a professor that systematically inflates grades will be called out.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be curious to hear who thinks this is unprofessional. Not any educators I know.

While I can't find any specific sources in the field of education, I was taught in engineering school that engineers reviewing the work of another engineer, unless their job specifically required them to review work, was against the code of ethics in Ontario. It looks like this is true as well in the USA which has this tidbit in their code of ethics.[1] "a. An Engineer in private practice will not review the work of…

This is different though, because of the “except with knowledge of said engineer” line. This code is trying to prevent clients from, for example, getting a “second opinion” on a project if they are unhappy that the first engineer deemed it unsafe. This isn’t really an issue in teaching. I think that it would be impolite to just drop in on a colleagues class unannounced, especially if it is a bit lecture where you might go unnoticed, but I don’t see why a prearranged visit would be unprofessional per se. (Perhaps because it would cause students to doubt the quality of their instructor?)

FWIW my understanding is that at my university the response to poor evals is a visit from a colleague, to assess whether the teacher really is weak or if the material is just difficult. Depending on that, the instructor may get additional coaching in teaching technique. This seems like a sensible approach to me.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#217
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to teach in academia. Student reviews are REALLY easy to game. Give everyone As for doing nothing, and most will give you As for just being entertaining. It doesn’t matter if they learn anything, or worse, if they learn the wrong things.

But why do you let the students grade the course after they've already gotten a grade? That's insane. In my university, you'd get a paper for the teacher and course review after handing in the final exam. This means you can comment on the quality of the exam, but you don't know your grade yet.

Then make your exams very easy so the students will be in a good mood when they fill the teacher and course reviews.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t have data, but I think most tenure track professors get tenure (if not at their current university, than another). Adjunct professors are not tenure track, so there is really no expectation that they would get tenure. Though I have seen the numbers that say the number of adjuncts is increasing.

The point is that far fewer professors are tenure track to begin with, compared to past decades.

Almost every lecturer my wife has is tenure track or already tenured.

One of them just plays videos of himself in his lectures. He doesn't actually go to them. He is actually around during less than half of his scheduled office hours. He complains to (and at least once has shouted at) the TAs about how students keep asking him questions. He has tenure.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#219
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they by design don’t provide prior exams Do they reuse past questions forever? That is a bad practice. Each term's exams need to be equivalent but different.

The way to ensure that they’re different is to require all prior assessment be publicly available - if someone having access to an old exam gives them an unfair advantage over people who don’t then that’s bad design.

I suspected that, and asked for clarification.

Re: Students Evaluating Teachers Doesn’t Just Hurt Teachers, It Hurts Students

#220
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to ensure that they’re different is to require all prior assessment be publicly available - if someone having access to an old exam gives them an unfair advantage over people who don’t then that’s bad design.

I suspected that, and asked for clarification.

Oh sorry I interpreted it as a hypothetical or something :)

My interpretation of the way US lecturers work is that they may reuse entire exams. Especially as a lot just get exams from book publishers.

In NZ (at Canterbury at least) all exams are archived and available in the libraries, and most also as PDFs. All of them. Shelf after shelf stretching back decades. At least back when I was there - maybe it’s different now? Publishers selling exam material as part of their text books seems to be moderately recent

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