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U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

wsj.com

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Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#121

Post by [deleted] »

yesenadam wrote: post #71
beginningguava wrote: post #29

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

More people die from it every year than Vietnam [Kind of off-topic] I'm guessing you mean by 'than Vietnam', 'than Americans died in the Vietnam war"? (Well I think so. Apologies if not.) That's a pretty macabre unit. Can you imagine how a Vietnamese person would feel reading that? Maybe in Vietnam they say 'More people die from [something] every year than America' - meaning what they call the American War[0]. Wouldn…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#123

Post by maccard »

akuji1993 wrote: post #64
all2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. A general feeling of disconnectedness? Perhaps some existential dread in there. The United States (by and large) used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?" The statistics that claim the US is still lar…

I'm honestly shocked how American doctors seem to give out opioid prescriptions for any illness or pain. I've not once heard from somebody here (Germany) that was prescribed opioids by their dentist after a surgery. They usually tell you to take some tylenol and rest at home, I've never heard of somebody getting opioid for that. But I've heard it mentioned multiple times regarding american dentists. There surely are…

> People should be getting way more education about what these drugs are, what they cause, how they should be taken and how you should stop taking them / what risks it bears if you don't.

My experience is that it's too complicated for people. My parents can just about understand don't take more than 8 paracetamol/tylenol per day, or don't take advil if you've got high blood pressure, but any more complex than that and they just can't really understand it.

They can't (or don't want to) understand that certain antibiotics mix poorly with alcohol (Don't drink on antibioitics) or that some painkillers are _not_ suitable for hangovers (headache == tylenol). They don't understand how statistics of side effects work (10% of people have one or more of the following side effects means "It won't happen to me"), or that some supplements can interfere with medication (warfarin and St Johns wort), and that this is bad, even though they're not medicines.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#124

Post by bluedino »

josho wrote: post #119
jillesvangurp wrote: post #81

I can think of a few other causes like sickness being a potentially bankrupting event so people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late. This apparently is a risk, even if you have insurance because you are at the mercy of insurers not tossing you out over such whimsical reasons as pre-existing conditions or other bureaucratic tricks they use to kill their customers rather than getting them cured. There are…

> people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late I saw this when travelling in the US for work. (I am Canadian). Striking up conversations in restaurants I met staff that worked while sick because they couldn't afford to take sick days, or worked with chronic conditions because they couldn't afford a visit to a doctor. Even worse are the major chronic diseases from our lifestyle (hypertension, diabetes, etc…

Many people are just too stubborn to go to the doctor. And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors. Plenty of people receive free healthcare in the USA by virtue of never paying, but getting treated.

It’s the middle class who pays their huge bills. Insurance doesn’t cover why these days and deductibles are insanely high. The poor get treated and just skip out on the bill.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#125

Post by all2 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #76
all2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. A general feeling of disconnectedness? Perhaps some existential dread in there. The United States (by and large) used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?" The statistics that claim the US is still lar…

>The statistics that claim the US is still largely religious are hallow. People wear labels of their religion as a means to exclude or silently signal 'better-than-you', when the purpose and message of those religions has nothing to do with that. Among people younger than about 60 or so I've noticed the reverse being far more true. People don't broadcast how religious they are. People are much more likely to broadcas…

> I personally don't think religion has a large effect on opioid use or suicide but if it does have one it's a positive one.

That was my point.

As for insulting people, that isn't my intent. I have only my own observations to go on, and I don't know other people's situations or story, especially religion. My personal experience has been rather shallow. No one asks hard questions, no one talks about God unless they're forced into it, especially at church.

Part of my (rather sad) interpretation of my experiences is that I have questions that are hard, that no one wants to answer. And I'm not able to ask those questions and get a useful answer. So, my interpretation is stained.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#126

Post by Leary »

adventured wrote: post #87
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, it seems like life exectancy will improve again as the economy improves and governments find ways to fight fentynal. I find this exceedingly difficult to believe in the rural areas of the US. The current expansion is almost the longest on record, going on since 2009. The structural forces that have hollowed out the economies of rural areas (widening inequality, e-commerce, globalization, etc.) are only incre…

The biggest problem in the overdose spike is that fentanyl is killing very large numbers of people that otherwise might not have died of overdoses from heroin a decade or more ago. The US is being blasted from outside by huge quantities of fentanyl, primarily by China. It's bordering on an act of war (Opium War style). The notion that China can't stop the fentanyl pouring out of their country toward the US is ridicul…

If China can stop fentanyl from pouring out of their country, why can't the US stop it from pouring in?

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#127

Post by enraged_camel »

bluedino wrote: post #124
josho wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people don't go to a doctor when they should or too late I saw this when travelling in the US for work. (I am Canadian). Striking up conversations in restaurants I met staff that worked while sick because they couldn't afford to take sick days, or worked with chronic conditions because they couldn't afford a visit to a doctor. Even worse are the major chronic diseases from our lifestyle (hypertension, diabetes, etc…

Many people are just too stubborn to go to the doctor. And many people go, knowing they can’t pay, because they’ll just never pay the bill and will dodge the bill collectors. Plenty of people receive free healthcare in the USA by virtue of never paying, but getting treated. It’s the middle class who pays their huge bills. Insurance doesn’t cover why these days and deductibles are insanely high. The poor get treated a…

They never pay the bill, because they can't.

Do you understand how insanely expensive healthcare in this country is, especially if you're making minimum wage and have dependents?

What do you suggest they do instead? Die? Let their kids die?

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#128

Post by all2 »

kadendogthing wrote: post #82
all2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. A general feeling of disconnectedness? Perhaps some existential dread in there. The United States (by and large) used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?" The statistics that claim the US is still lar…

>used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?" I don't buy this for a second. There is a notable, consistent correlation with economic viability (lack thereof) and perceived/real economic inequality and the negative effects these have on a population. Drug use, mental illness, even infant…

> and they don't have a "purpose."

I guess I didn't state my case clearly. My point was (in part) that religion can provide purpose if people lean into it the right way, and that having a purpose can stave off the desire to be numb - emotionally and physically.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#129

Post by nonbel »

What do they mean by overdose?

The WSJ did not seem to properly cite its sources here, but I am guessing it is this:

>"Drug overdose deaths are identified using underlying cause-of-death codes from the Tenth Revision of ICD (ICD–10): X40–X44 (unintentional), X60–X64 (suicide), X85 (homicide), and Y10–Y14 (undetermined)." https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm#no...

  Accidental poisoning by and exposure to nonopioid analgesics, antipyretics and antirheumatics
  Accidental poisoning by and exposure to nonopioid analgesics, antipyretics and antirheumatics
  Accidental poisoning by and exposure to narcotics and psychodysleptics [hallucinogens], not elsewhere classified  
  Accidental poisoning by and exposure to other drugs acting on the autonomic nervous system
  Accidental poisoning by and exposure to other and unspecified drugs, medicaments and biological substances
http://apps.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online2004...

  Intentional self-poisoning by and exposure to nonopioid analgesics, antipyretics and antirheumatics 
  Intentional self-poisoning by and exposure to antiepileptic, sedative-hypnotic, antiparkinsonism and psychotropic drugs, not elsewhere classified 
  Intentional self-poisoning by and exposure to narcotics and psychodysleptics [hallucinogens], not elsewhere classified 
  Intentional self-poisoning by and exposure to other drugs acting on the autonomic nervous system 
  Intentional self-poisoning by and exposure to other and unspecified drugs, medicaments and biological substances
http://apps.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online2003...

  Assault by drugs, medicaments and biological substances
http://apps.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online2005...

  Poisoning by and exposure to nonopioid analgesics, antipyretics and antirheumatics, undetermined intent 
  Poisoning by and exposure to nonopioid analgesics, antipyretics and antirheumatics, undetermined intent 
  Poisoning by and exposure to narcotics and psychodysleptics [hallucinogens], not elsewhere classified, undetermined intent 
  Poisoning by and exposure to other drugs acting on the autonomic nervous system, undetermined intent 
  Poisoning by and exposure to other and unspecified drugs, medicaments and biological substances, undetermined intent
http://apps.who.int/classifications/apps/icd/icd10online2004...

Overdosing on opiods is only one part of this category. Basically if you take too little/much of a medication (eg, blood pressure medication) you would be counted here. So I wonder if this increase is not just reflecting a general increase in taking medications.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#130

Post by Leary »

pseudolus wrote: post #36

Is there any indication as to whether life expectancy has fallen for all income groups? Are there any income related discrepancies?

Rich people's life expectancy is increasing just fine, it's the poorer people that are having trouble.

Source: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/25135...

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