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U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

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71–80 of 278 posts

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#71

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

More people die from it every year than Vietnam

[Kind of off-topic] I'm guessing you mean by 'than Vietnam', 'than Americans died in the Vietnam war"? (Well I think so. Apologies if not.) That's a pretty macabre unit. Can you imagine how a Vietnamese person would feel reading that? Maybe in Vietnam they say 'More people die from [something] every year than America' - meaning what they call the American War[0]. Wouldn't that sound super-weird. That's something like how what you said sounds to me. Only for them it would mean 1-3 million.

[0] or the Resistance War Against America.

edit: Downvoter, care to explain how I can improve my comment? Thanks.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#72
post #62

Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. I can't help but feel like there is a sense of uselessness felt by and toward a large population in the US and rather than lift them up we are letting them be snuffed out.

> Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. A general feeling of disconnectedness? Perhaps some existential dread in there. The United States (by and large) used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?" The statistics that claim the US is still lar…

Something else to consider: In many oriental countries such as Japan and China, people used to live with minimal influences from religions. There are buddhism presence here and there, but buddhism itself is very non intrusive than abrahamic religions.

I lived in northern Europe for a couple of years and it seems to me northern/western Europe is also much less religious than US, without a opioid epidemic.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#73
post #61

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

People have gone to a lot of effort to convince their fellow Americans that those that die from opioids deserve it. I'm sure some will turn up in this thread.

I actually don't think that those people really have any significant voice at all, let alone the ability to persuade anyone. Sympathy for the victims of the opioid crisis is one of the few things that spans the political divide; the right sees the outsize devastation it has on their rural constintuencies and the left wants to expand healthcare and decriminalize drugs. The only people I can imagine saying "they deserve it!!" are befuddled leftover Cold Warriors who still see Nancy Reagan every time they close their eyes, or else just transparent trolls who get off on inciting others. Sadly, it just so happens that those same people are in control of the government.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#74
post #9

I think we've reached the point of diminishing marginal returns to health care spending. That means when we spend more money on healthcare as a percent of GDP, life expectancy starts to fall. We are already at 16% of GDP spent on healthcare. That's double the amount that any other country spends on healthcare. We also have worse life expectancy vs. countries that spend much less as a percent of GDP than we do. One of…

I doubt it helps that anything medical related costs so much more in the US than it does anywhere else for no real reason.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#75

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

I think it's the same issue as the prison population being so enormous. When someone does crime/drugs the country collectively just thinks that these people did it to themselves. I've heard people casually refer to criminals/addicts as animals, it's ridiculous.

Yes that's sad. But consider: what would you call someone who injected strangers with noxious drugs and enjoyed their torment? An animal? Is it so big a leap to think the same, when they're doing it to themselves?

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#76
post #62

Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. I can't help but feel like there is a sense of uselessness felt by and toward a large population in the US and rather than lift them up we are letting them be snuffed out.

> Drug overdose and abuse seem to me to be a symptom of something way more troubling. A general feeling of disconnectedness? Perhaps some existential dread in there. The United States (by and large) used to be lashed to religious moorings, which provided some sense of purpose and moral grounding, as well as fending off pesky questions like "what happens to me when I die?" The statistics that claim the US is still lar…

>The statistics that claim the US is still largely religious are hallow. People wear labels of their religion as a means to exclude or silently signal 'better-than-you', when the purpose and message of those religions has nothing to do with that.

Among people younger than about 60 or so I've noticed the reverse being far more true. People don't broadcast how religious they are. People are much more likely to broadcast things like what you're saying which is fairly insulting. You're message basically boils down to "most people who believe they are religious are just in it for the virtue signaling and therefore are doing religion wrong" which is pretty insulting to anyone even remotely religions.

I personally don't think religion has a large effect on opioid use or suicide but if it does have one it's a positive one. Nobody ever got hooked on drugs or attempted suicide because their life was fulfilling and on a track to get better. People do drugs and kill themselves because they are in despair and feel like there is no way out of their situation. If anything religion would act as a positive outlet for those feelings.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#77
post #9

I think we've reached the point of diminishing marginal returns to health care spending. That means when we spend more money on healthcare as a percent of GDP, life expectancy starts to fall. We are already at 16% of GDP spent on healthcare. That's double the amount that any other country spends on healthcare. We also have worse life expectancy vs. countries that spend much less as a percent of GDP than we do. One of…

US healthcare outcomes in most areas aren't actually particularly good, though (iirc, it does reasonably well on cancer, but is under par on most other stuff). The US healthcare system is expensive because it's inefficient.

I would argue that it's expensive because it is private and unregulated.

The amount of anger the healthcare system can cause in the US is unbelievable. Example, I had a surgery that was pre-approved. Then, I received a bill for $20k. I called the insurance and they said the company wanted to charge them to much and they could not come to an agreement, therefore, they are not paying. So, I call the surgery place and told them there is no way I am paying that bill.

I kept getting bills for 4-5 years, till they settled with insurance company and send me a bill for $500. At that point, I decided just not to pay it, because it angered me so much.

Doctors are under pressure now too. There is pressure to see many patients in a day. Push drugs, vaccinations and so on. It is terrible for everyone involved except companies who benefit financially from it.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#78

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

Someone replied to you with an ignorant comment that was deleted. I'm copy/pasting it here anyway because they are spewing common misconceptions that need to be squashed. > The US has 330 million people. Do we really care if a bunch self-select out of the gene pool? While some people do choose to use drugs with their own free will, this epidemic isn't about that. Many people getting addicted have been initially presc…

Seems their comment is gone too. I’d love to have been given the chance to downvote them.

To me this all boils down to what you’re saying, but I’d like to just add mention that i think the bigger disease in the US that enables situations like this is the acceptance of misinformation. As you pointed out, many many many of these cases are started by a medically issued prescription, and it kills multiple times more people than recent wars or terrorist related acts, yet anyone who drives action here is often labeled as “helping junkies that don’t deserve help”.

In the very near future when climate change has destroyed our way of life, and one of the few nations that was capable of doing something is finally and certifiably recognized as having sat by and done nothing, i hope the world takes note. These are the kinds of acts of neglect that make Nero famous, and while i don’t want their names remember, i do want the world to move on from the US being seen as the worlds police and freedom fighters. If Kama is real, the US should be concerned, and as someone that is a close neighbour, it terrifying to think how that will flow on to impact the rest of us.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#79
post #13

This seems like a case of temporary circumstances and statistical creating a doomsday picture. The temporary circumstances seem to be the suicide rate brought on by the still recovering economy and glib life prospects. Partly related to this is a new deadly drug that is gaining popularity. Add to this the statistical factors like the anti smoking and healthy living campaigns hitting their peak effect a few decades af…

> This seems like a case of temporary circumstances and statistical creating a doomsday picture.

It's definitely intellectual fraud. This is a life expectancy projection for babies born in 2017 and it's assuming the opioid overdoses (the recent scale of which didn't exist ten years ago) continue unabated for seven or eight more decades.

Re: U.S. Life Expectancy Falls Further

#80

The opioid epidemic is an amazing example of human psychology and the power of a visual. More people die from it every year than Vietnam, yet there's been no large public outcry to resolve the situation because it isn't right in your face like a 9/11 or pearl harbor. Even ignoring the human impact and just going to economics, those lost lives will cost the US billions in lost productivity over time, yet nobody really…

Have you been living under a rock or is my definition of large public outcry vastly different? I hear about this more than I hear about climate change issues (but not as much as about gun violence, which causes far fewer deaths in the US).

But what causes far greater deaths than even opioids, is avoidable medical errors. It's quite difficult to stop a highly addictive class of drugs which is backed by big business (legal or illegal). But that many avoidable medical errors in 2018, despite the high barriers to become a doctor?

Maybe we shouldn't be treating this opioid problem so gravely after all. The more serious, more deadly, more costly problem of avoidable medical errors could be even the root cause of the addiction epidemic.

I spent the better part of my adult life as an addict, and yet not one doctor out of the many that I saw acknowledged or noticed. Furthermore, on the occasions I did muster enough courage to ask them if the drugs were causing harm (three different non-opioid drugs at different periods of my life), I was shrugged off, the doctors saying that my symptoms do not match up, or otherwise downplaying the situation. I needed hard evidence that what I was doing was actually harming me or I saw no incentive to quit. By the time one does enough chronic use to be at risk of death, I imagine the addiction and habit is far too strong to easily break. So I'm of the opinion that the root cause is with the medical profession's apparent limitations.

It's often very hard to get medical help in general until something is plain and obvious, highly common, or literally killing you, with the evidence needing to show up on examination or test. This is something that I could be vastly improved with AI doctors and open access to anonymized health data. But given how much of a fight the taxi cab driver union puts up (with self driving cars and even Uber), I won't hold my breath for the AMA to get behind the idea.

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