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How Restaurants Got So Loud

theatlantic.com

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Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#301

Post by cr0sh »

trophycase wrote: post #210
simonebrunozzi wrote: post #120

I hate loud restaurants, I hate loud cafes, I hate when I have to listen to dumb music all the f ing time. I am also very surprised that no one has figured out a way to offer a quieter version to customers like me. I'd pay more to have a quieter experience.

Yes nearly everywhere plays music nowadays. I think it's to drown out the feeling of existential dread of actually having to hear yourself. Don't think about it too hard people, just buy more.

> I think it's to drown out the feeling of existential dread of actually having to hear yourself.

To a certain extent, this is actually true.

I have read more than a few stories recently where people have literally said they hate quietness, and need noise surrounding them (especially other people), so that they didn't have to be alone with their thoughts.

I find that to be depressing.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#302

Post by cr0sh »

adwhit wrote: post #14
keiferski wrote: post #7

I'd love to read an analysis of how the world in general has gotten so loud. Even a few hundred years ago, the centers of massive cities like Paris, Rome, or Istanbul must have been significantly quieter, being that cars, horns, trains, speakers, boomboxes, industrial plants, airplanes and everything else that creates noise pollution didn't exist.

Cars must surely be the main cause. There is an interesting phenomenon known as "shifting baseline syndrome" where we tend to compare our environment to what we recall as a child and inevitably conclude that is has gotten nosier/busier/more polluted, not realizing that environment of our childhoods were already heavily degraded. The world in which we evolved would have been almost silent, almost all of the time, apar…

> The world in which we evolved would have been almost silent, almost all of the time, apart from the sounds of birds and insects.

I wonder if that hypothesis is related at all to hypothesis of bicameralism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameralism_(psychology)

Note: I haven't read the book, so maybe it was covered...

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#303

Post by acct1771 »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #177
acct1771 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go around and ask any people, younger people the better, what the last three books they've read are. Watch them struggle.

Not reading is one thing, hating books to be trendy is another.

The most popular selection on FB in the West for favorite books literally seems to be "I don't read lol".

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#304

Post by mnw21cam »

erdo wrote: post #273
mnw21cam wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Met Office in the UK has a canteen, and at one point, they decided that it was too noisy. Their solution was to make a load of person-sized wool "clouds", and hang them from the ceiling. They look cool, and they absorb noise. A couple of months ago, I went to a conference in San Diego, and went to a restaurant in the evening with colleagues. We could hardly hear the person next to us shouting. I left as soon as I…

That reminds me of the Royal Albert Hall in London - don't know if you've been, but they have things that look like giant mints hanging from the ceiling. (I assume it's to break up any echo from the bowl shaped ceiling)

The flying saucers hanging from the ceiling of the Royal Albert Hall are world famous, and are totally acoustic engineering.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#305

Post by thom »

eponeponepon wrote: post #60
thom wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, apologies if I think kids being encouraged to go to libraries is more important than grown ups who can go _anywhere_ refusing to finding somewhere to read.

What kids should be encouraged to do is not merely attend a library as if simply being there is an end in itself, but to learn to appreciate and enjoy quiet, reflective learning.

My 4 and 7 year olds do, my 10 month old doesn't, and I'd still like to be able to go to the library (and yay, I can, because we have nice libraries here that aren't full of aggressively shushy weirdos). Plus _I_ want to be able to talk in a library, about what books we want, about what words mean, about chess moves, whatever. It's just wrong to exclude people from a space because you want a free, quiet office, and I'm glad that more and more libraries agree.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#306

Post by rv-de »

NotAnEconomist wrote: post #190
decebalus1 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably won't be the most popular opinion but I'm siding with the business for this one. I never got people who use cafe bars, delis, etc.. as personal offices. I personally can't get 'in the zone' in such a public place where: - I need to buy/consume something every X minutes - have to overhear irrelevant stupid/mundane conversations - people have a habit of bringing their dogs everywhere now and I'm not even go…

> I never got this working from a coffee shop thing. This is an old tradition. Cafes, bars, tea houses, etc have served as social hubs and placed to read or work on documents (now computers) for literally thousands of years, everywhere on the planet. There's simply a social need for a space like that, because it's a more efficient usage of space to have people work on a revolving basis in a shared space than everyone…

You are describing Vienna's coffee house culture. You could even have your mail received there. But part of that culture is also to avoid disturbing other guests by being unnecessarily loud.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#307

Post by rv-de »

keiferski wrote: post #17
willvarfar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of the making-libraries-loud (loud as in happy) movement, but I'm usually bringing my kids to browse the shelves and pick books to bring home, not to actually spend time there reading them. In my experience kids find quiet libraries intimidating. (Which is at odds with my own preferences, I should add, but I prioritize the kids.) What the libraries need is a quiet reading room, rather like the trains ha…

Libraries are not playgrounds. This idea that the primary functional purpose of an important space should be some kind of afterthought is rather depressing, but I guess is follows from the entertainment-centric culture we live in. The purpose of a library is to read, not to entertain your kids.

When I was young what I liked about libraries was that they where quiet places. It's a terrible idea to make libraries loud.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#308

Post by rv-de »

brokenmachine wrote: post #289
willvarfar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of the making-libraries-loud (loud as in happy) movement, but I'm usually bringing my kids to browse the shelves and pick books to bring home, not to actually spend time there reading them. In my experience kids find quiet libraries intimidating. (Which is at odds with my own preferences, I should add, but I prioritize the kids.) What the libraries need is a quiet reading room, rather like the trains ha…

>I'm a big fan of the making-libraries-loud (loud as in happy) movement, but I'm usually bringing my kids This is so different to me, it's ridiculous. Loud is not happy. Loud is not sad. Loud is just loud. I'm not going to a loud library. If your kids can't be quiet, then keep them out please. Probably there should be libraries for children that are louder, but that's a different conversation. When I go on bushwalks…

I'm totally with you here. I sometimes feel like living in a tyranny of the squallers. In a room with 100 people it takes 100 people to create silence and just one to destroy that. It's so sad.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#309

Post by rv-de »

tapland wrote: post #53
willvarfar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of the making-libraries-loud (loud as in happy) movement, but I'm usually bringing my kids to browse the shelves and pick books to bring home, not to actually spend time there reading them. In my experience kids find quiet libraries intimidating. (Which is at odds with my own preferences, I should add, but I prioritize the kids.) What the libraries need is a quiet reading room, rather like the trains ha…

Or, let's create some kind of public space that is not an isolated study room so that people can leave their homes but still enjoy a calm and quiet place? But then your kids won't want to go there in the future, because all kids grow up to become adults who want loud places for their kids to grow up to visit loud places... The main problem we experience is a complete lack of quiet places, and since you don't want any…

> and that seems to be a majority opinion, we won't have any.

Is the majority really in favor of being loud? I personally believe that it is in fact a minority - just a loud minority. People who enjoy silence are also usually less vocal about their interests - sadly. Because from a public health perspective it's the loud people who can learn something from those enjoying silence.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#310

Post by brokenmachine »

rv-de wrote: post #308
brokenmachine wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm a big fan of the making-libraries-loud (loud as in happy) movement, but I'm usually bringing my kids This is so different to me, it's ridiculous. Loud is not happy. Loud is not sad. Loud is just loud. I'm not going to a loud library. If your kids can't be quiet, then keep them out please. Probably there should be libraries for children that are louder, but that's a different conversation. When I go on bushwalks…

I'm totally with you here. I sometimes feel like living in a tyranny of the squallers. In a room with 100 people it takes 100 people to create silence and just one to destroy that. It's so sad.

>tyranny of the squallers. In a room with 100 people it takes 100 people to create silence and just one to destroy that.

I've never thought about it like that but it's so true. Loudest one wins every time.

Also I just learned a new word, "squaller".

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