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Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

nytimes.com

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Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#141

Post by gpm »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #133
gpm wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dispute this on two points. He did not fully "win" the championship. Sure, they had to give the title to somebody, so it's him, but splitting half of the prize is not a complete win. Even if he had fully won, I don't view it as a sportsmanlike strategy to give up a game to put yourself in an advantageous position. That's why we have a rule against agreeing to a draw to early. That's why in hockey stopping trying to…

Are you also against sacrificing a piece in a game to gain an advantage? How is this different? He played a sacrifice in the meta game to gain an advantage.

The difference is that:

- This was part of the metagame.

- This was agreeing to a "semi-draw" in the metagame when he did not need to.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#142

Post by notyourday »

johnb wrote: post #119
mindgam3 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't argue with your first premise. Your following points, however, are less convincing. "Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves." Even if Kasparov and Grischuk said this today (citation please?), it doesn't make it true. There are many players who get better playing rapid and blitz. Look at the traject…

Kasparov had said that all players are worse in blitz, but that Carlsen gets least worst https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1067826806823297029

"The legendary former champion Garry Kasparov suggested the draw offer was a sign that Carlsen was losing his nerve, and on Twitter he proclaimed Caruana the favorite in the tiebreakers. “They’re entitled to their stupid opinions,” Carlsen said with a smile of his critics after his victory."

-- from NYT

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#143

Post by mindgam3 »

diminoten wrote: post #114
nisuni wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am nowhere near you score, but I have heard many strong players stating that blitz is bad for you, and actually creates bad habits for classical.

I think these IM/GMs are forgetting what it was like to play chess when they first started out. Nowadays, they see the board as, well, IM/GMs, and it's a different experience from someone who's just starting out. I'm terrible, terrible at chess, but at least I don't hang my queen or do other truly stupid shit in longer time controls. You can't even really start to play chess for real until you stop just giving up pie…

I especially recommend blitz for beginners. It will mercilessly expose the gaping hole weaknesses in your game (i.e. hanging pieces). The way to improve at chess quickly is to find your blind spots quickly and train them.

Most people struggle to get good at chess because they are too afraid to lose, and too afraid to actually do the "practice" part of playing which is to analyze your losses to identify which areas you need to train.

Grinding is not how you get better. Grinding can be fun, and can be a great way to blow off steam. Both of those are awesome reasons to play chess. But if you are serious about improving quickly, do what the pros do. Don't grind aimlessly. Play a lot, don't be afraid to lose, and do legit post-mortems to give you feedback on where you need to pay more attention.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#144

Post by billforsternz »

benatkin wrote: post #76

It's funny how both of their last names start with "Car". On chessgames.com there's a massive dropdown of famous players in the search, and those are the only two whose names start with "Car". Chess.com did a contest on it, where they asked what type of car each of them would be. I was rooting for Caruana but I'm not at all annoyed that Carlsen won. I really like how each of them rose to greatness with the different…

Echoing the epic Kasparov v Karpov rivalry from 30 years ago perhaps. Pity that 's' and 'r' in the third letter had an off by one error in that case though.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#145

Post by michalu »

mindgam3 wrote: post #135
michalu wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a good point, but I don't think he's playing for hearts. They play for money and recognition in the first place. Every sportsman who experienced a failure (and we all have) knows very well that while you're applauded at the top the moment you lose many, including your fans will suddenly rejoice ... sometimes you even get some "kicks while on the ground." About the Grischuk and Kasparov quote, it turns out I…

I can't argue with your logic here. We do live in a world where people say winning isn't everything. But actually, it is. It's not just happening in chess. This is the same "win at all costs" mentality that gave us the wonders of "growth hacking" i.e. unethical behavior that becomes glorified in Silicon Valley, because it works. I don't mean to get all Ghandi-like on you, but I do want to ask you sincerely - what kin…

Not at all, I don't argue for "winning at all costs" not in sports. But I do argue for winning in a fair game. And Carlsen won a fair game.

Chess is a harmless game so boxing would be a better example. Imagine a boxer that uses dirty tactics or uses PEDs ... that's "winning at all costs." But a boxer that has an elusive style that's considered boring by fans because fans like a lot of action ... I applaud this person if the style is superior in getting results.

You can see my point is different fans appreciate different aspects of the game. I loved the way Carlsen took it to rapid. You didn't and I can understand why.

In boxing I see the beauty in elusive tactical style of Mayweather, other want to see a slugfest. Because boxing places your health at risk I look down on that to be honest and I value a victory with minimum risk.

I sympathise with your good intentions but you misrepresented my words.

I never argued for "winning at all cost." I believe ability to win, regardless of how unimpressive (as long as it is ethical) is a virtue.

I do not live in Bay Area nor the US, I wish you all well though :)

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#146

Post by david-gpu »

mindgam3 wrote: post #135
michalu wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a good point, but I don't think he's playing for hearts. They play for money and recognition in the first place. Every sportsman who experienced a failure (and we all have) knows very well that while you're applauded at the top the moment you lose many, including your fans will suddenly rejoice ... sometimes you even get some "kicks while on the ground." About the Grischuk and Kasparov quote, it turns out I…

I can't argue with your logic here. We do live in a world where people say winning isn't everything. But actually, it is. It's not just happening in chess. This is the same "win at all costs" mentality that gave us the wonders of "growth hacking" i.e. unethical behavior that becomes glorified in Silicon Valley, because it works. I don't mean to get all Ghandi-like on you, but I do want to ask you sincerely - what kin…

If you want to encourage more exciting games then you need to reward those who play them. E.g. have judges subjectively award points like it's done in sports like gymnastics.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#148

Post by stouset »

mindgam3 wrote: post #5

I’d like to offer a few thoughts on this match as a former internationally competitive player/US Cadet U16 champion, current ~2400 bullet chess addict, and someone who has played bughouse with Fabiano as my partner at the Sinquefield Cup in 2017. First, hats off to both players for a hard fought match. To Magnus for successfully defending his title, and to Fabiano for pushing Magnus right to the brink. This was an ex…

I'm happy to help beta test.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#149

Post by randylahey »

dmerrick wrote: post #10

I just want to give a mention to ChessNetwork on Twitch[1]. I watched many of the games of this series live via this channel, and it was great how the commentator had his own board to demonstrate the next few moves and explain the players' thinking. It was really interesting and relaxing. https://www.twitch.tv/chessnetwork

I "randomly" discovered (if that is such a thing in today's world of machine learning) ChessNetwork, and it's become my primary resource for improving my chess beyond the beginner level. Their beginner to master series describes so many little things that would have taken me ages to learn or many books read.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#150

Post by altairiumblue »

nilkn wrote: post #85
vertline3 wrote: post #39

Strength in faster time controls strongly fits overall strength. Caruana knew he was the underdog in Tie-breaks, he had 12 chances to avoid that and he was unable to. Carlsen could have pressed in game 12 but he knew he was much stronger in faster controls, why risk anything? Using computer evals through the match, I felt that Carlsen was slightly stronger, and their head to head record suggests as much.

The other way of looking at this is that twice in a row Carlsen has been unable to defend the title in classical controls and has relied on rapid time controls to win. In both cases, it's unclear if Carlsen could have retained the title had more classical games been played.

Or you could say that he's been undefeated in classical controls and therefore retained his title.
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