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Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

nytimes.com

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Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#101

Post by Someone »

msbarnett wrote: post #60
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re dramatically overstating the advantage Carlsen had in Game 12. It was not decisive or obvious in any way and afterwards various engines played out the position to a draw. It might have been possible to win, but it might also have been possible to blunder and miss the chance to go to rapid tie breaks (a format where Carlsen had the advantage). You’re also not doing Caruana justice. He worked Carlsen into badly…

> You’re dramatically overstating the advantage Carlsen had in Game 12. It was not decisive or obvious in any way and afterwards various engines played out the position to a draw. You're misstating the results of the Game 12 replays (see: https://www.chess.com/computer-chess-championship , which is pitting numerous engines against each other in the position at Game 12's resignation). It's currently +3-18=14. That's 3…

”It's currently +3-18=14. That's 3 wins for Caruana's position, 18 wins for Carlsen's, and 14 draws. That's about as decisive a position as you can get in high-level chess.”

Today’s games stand at +3-0=0 or, taking the last game as the draw it would have been if Caruana didn’t have to win, at +2-0=1.

I haven’t done the math, but I’m sure taking a “best of four” sample from the distribution that was taken from gives you better odds than taking a n=1 sample from the distribution that gave you +3-18=14 (about 9% chance of losing, about 50% of winning’, followed by (if that draw is a tied game) that n=4 sample.

And that’s ignoring the fact that that +3-18=14 is from machines that are way different from humans. When given a chess position that’s like a minefield, with a single winning sequence of 40 moves, and all other moves a loss, a computer will happily declare the position a certain win, but chances are no human will find that winning sequence.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#102

Post by unreal37 »

liftbigweights wrote: post #21

There are so many better links than a nytimes spam. But all we seem to get is nytimes spam lately. How about link the a website dedicated to chess? https://www.chess.com/article/view/world-chess-championship-...

NYT has a paywall.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#104

Post by Murgio »

aeleos wrote: post #94
pianowow wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire tiebreak, which was played today, is this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBvQ36SqgqM The entire match, played over the past weeks, is this playlist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJlVjicymKI&list=PLAwlxGCJB4...

Thanks, but I was looking for a video of them actually playing, not just people reviewing the moves.

FIDE actually owns the rights to the content. As far as I know there is no way other than to pay $20 for the video on the their main website. https://worldchess.com

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#105

Post by [deleted] »

nevi-me wrote: post #6

I was disappointed in Carlsen's 12th game draw. He might have etched something out of the game, as computers were clearly saying he had some slight advantage. After seeing the first games from today, I eased down on my disappointment. Today's first few games changed my mind. Carlsen remains the better player, because he does better where it matters; time pressure. Caruana seemed to battle with time a lot, I observed…

[deleted]

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#106

Post by michalu »

In the end, Carlsen is the man who knows the best how to win in chess. Regardless of all critics.

He played the 12th game safe knowing he's a huge favourite in rapid and blitz. Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves.

Under these conditions it's more than sensible to move into the terrain where you have an advantage, if thinking strategically.

I would argue the problem is that most of the fans have become conditioned to expect entertainment, drama and bold moves in sports like we see in overly dramatic movies.

But historically, if you consider generals or even have a look into Sun Tzu's art of war, the strategists and generals that were most regarded were the ones who were able to win in a manner that it seemed easy, unimpressive, without drama or heavy losses or huge risks involved.

That's what a great strategy is about taking battle where the outcome is decided beforehand. And that's what Carlsen did.

The downside is it cost him €50k as the money distribution goes to 550/450 in tiebreak from 600/400 if decided in classical.

So he exchanged a potential loss of €200k at a favourable odds for a sure loss of €50k with potential loss of €150k at a much better odds. Now here's where we could question his decision speculating what the actual odds were, but who knows if he cares about the money.

I enjoyed this final a lot.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#107

Post by michalu »

bartcobain wrote: post #103

The strategy of Fabiano was better, but the tactics of Carlsen was the real reason for his victory.

Can you elaborate?

I would say it was Carlsen's overall strategy that got him a win. Taking it to the tie-break where he's a huge favourite. Seems like playing it safe was his strategy.

I can't evaluate who chose better tactics.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#108

Post by patejam »

School-Cotton wrote: post #74
joefkelley wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you consider an ice hockey player's skill in 3-on-3 overtime or shootouts to be a factor in their overall ice hockey skill?

Sure -- overtime is part of the rules of hockey. Rapid and blitz chess aren't part of the rules of standard chess. Rapid and blitz (and armageddon) were part of the meta-rules of this match , but then your argument only works if you say Magnus is better at the meta-sport called "winning the 2018 World Chess Championship" -- which I'd agree with, but it isn't the same thing as being better at chess . Probably the best…

Overtime is basically meta-rules as well in ice hockey. It can change depending on the game. ex. it differs depending on if its a playoff game or not. And just like the chess championships, it can change from year to year.

I've competed at a high level in a hobby of mine, and it was well known that the winner of a competition was never "the person who is best", it was "the person who is best in the competition environment that day". No matter what rules you have, that will always be true. And that's okay.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#109

Post by DFHippie »

michalu wrote: post #106

In the end, Carlsen is the man who knows the best how to win in chess. Regardless of all critics. He played the 12th game safe knowing he's a huge favourite in rapid and blitz. Like Kasparov and Grischuk pointed out today, every other chess player gets worse playing rapid/blitz but Carlsen is the only one who actually improves. Under these conditions it's more than sensible to move into the terrain where you have an…

I think they only pointed out that he improves relative to his opponent.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#110

Post by xenihn »

mindgam3 wrote: post #5

I’d like to offer a few thoughts on this match as a former internationally competitive player/US Cadet U16 champion, current ~2400 bullet chess addict, and someone who has played bughouse with Fabiano as my partner at the Sinquefield Cup in 2017. First, hats off to both players for a hard fought match. To Magnus for successfully defending his title, and to Fabiano for pushing Magnus right to the brink. This was an ex…

I'm an iOS dev and I would potentially be interested in contributing. I can email you later if you'd like (I see your email is in your profile).
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