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Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

nytimes.com

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Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#71

Post by tchang1997 »

mindgam3 wrote: post #5

I’d like to offer a few thoughts on this match as a former internationally competitive player/US Cadet U16 champion, current ~2400 bullet chess addict, and someone who has played bughouse with Fabiano as my partner at the Sinquefield Cup in 2017. First, hats off to both players for a hard fought match. To Magnus for successfully defending his title, and to Fabiano for pushing Magnus right to the brink. This was an ex…

I've actually seen this too and will be helping with the tech side a little -- it's a great way to find my problem areas. I'm an amateur myself trying to improve ag blitz -- Lichess handle @tchang1997

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#72

Post by nisuni »

nevi-me wrote: post #26
nisuni wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Today's first few games changed my mind. Carlsen remains the better player, because he does better where it matters; time pressure. This is completely wrong. Top players (Carlsen included) acknowledge that chess on rapid time controls is very different from longer time controls, to the point that it feels almost like a different sport. You may or may not agree that rapid (and blitz, if needed) are used as tie break…

> What you said it’s like saying that penalties are what matters the most in soccer. Not really. I'm not disregarding the classical form of the game, but I'm saying that rapid and blitz show an extra quality which the long form doesn't; the ability to keep calm under pressure. Penalties are an interesting one, because they're partly about speed and deception. They don't matter most, but a good team spends some time p…

> the ability to keep calm under pressure.

Sure, but by playing on rapid time controls you are not giving the players the opportunity to evaluate lines as deep as those on longer time controls.

You add something, but you lose something. And what you lose is the very essence of chess.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#73

Post by modernerd »

mindgam3 wrote: post #62
modernerd wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your insights! As someone who enjoys blitz much more than classical chess and would like to get better at it, your interface sounds interesting. I'm only ~1,800 in blitz on Lichess, but I'd be curious to beta test it or take lessons.

Would love to get you involved! Please feel free to reach out for lessons or beta testing, my contact info is in my profile.

Emailed, thanks!

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#74

Post by School-Cotton »

joefkelley wrote: post #55
School-Cotton wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To someone (like the person you replied to) who considers slow chess to be "actual chess" and quicker formats to be a different game, this argument doesn't make sense. Imagine two people of equal ability at ice hockey. You wouldn't say that one is better than the other at ice hockey because he's better than the other at field hockey. Adding my edit to a below comment here: Probably the best analogy here is associatio…

Would you consider an ice hockey player's skill in 3-on-3 overtime or shootouts to be a factor in their overall ice hockey skill?

Sure -- overtime is part of the rules of hockey. Rapid and blitz chess aren't part of the rules of standard chess.

Rapid and blitz (and armageddon) were part of the meta-rules of this match, but then your argument only works if you say Magnus is better at the meta-sport called "winning the 2018 World Chess Championship" -- which I'd agree with, but it isn't the same thing as being better at chess.

Probably the best analogy here is association football -- the normal, standard game can end in a draw. During the World Cup and other elimination tournaments, a completely new rule, not part of the normal game, is introduced allowing games to be decided by penalty kicks. Is the fact that Italy beat France in the 2006 World Cup final on penalty kicks evidence that Italy's team was "better at association football" than France's? Many people would argue that it's not.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#75

Post by modernerd »

omega3 wrote: post #36
mindgam3 wrote: post #5

I’d like to offer a few thoughts on this match as a former internationally competitive player/US Cadet U16 champion, current ~2400 bullet chess addict, and someone who has played bughouse with Fabiano as my partner at the Sinquefield Cup in 2017. First, hats off to both players for a hard fought match. To Magnus for successfully defending his title, and to Fabiano for pushing Magnus right to the brink. This was an ex…

> The truth is, blitz chess is not only insanely fun but extremely good training to develop intuition for slow chess. I find that actually quite controversial - correlation does not imply causation. The general sentiment within the community is that the causation works from the other side i.e being good at slow leads to being good at blitz. Here are some quotes you might find interesting: "Playing rapid chess, one ca…

“The best blitz players are the best slow players.” — Dan Heisman

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#76

Post by benatkin »

It's funny how both of their last names start with "Car". On chessgames.com there's a massive dropdown of famous players in the search, and those are the only two whose names start with "Car". Chess.com did a contest on it, where they asked what type of car each of them would be.

I was rooting for Caruana but I'm not at all annoyed that Carlsen won. I really like how each of them rose to greatness with the different styles of playing chess they have.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#77

Post by mindgam3 »

polishTar wrote: post #66
mindgam3 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will refute your list of quotes by (again) pointing to the results of the world championships, just concluded. The world crown was lost because Fabiano cracked under time pressure and lost a position in Game 1 of tiebreaks that he easily could have drawn in classical chess. Skill in blitz chess does translate to classical, people. It's not just about developing intuition. It's training your mind to see clearly unde…

I know nothing about chess, but part of your argument in both this post and the one before seems to be "I'm right because my ranking is higher than average". That's a bad way to convince people in general (it relies on appeal to authority, a type of logical fallacy), but since you're insistent on using it, the people quoted above are much stronger authorities and appear to hold the opposite view.

Is there a reason why you’re not calling out the parent comment on appeal to authority? Because that was the thrust of his entire argument.

It’s not just me who feels that way about blitz though. Look at guys like Hikaru Nakamura or Daniel Naroditsky. For every grandmaster who thinks blitz is useless, I can find one who thinks the opposite.

Ultimately the only real way to test theories is to get in and try it on yourself. Would you like to learn how to improve your chess? Are you open to a new way of doing it accelerated by technology? If so, I might be able to help. If not, no worries. There are plenty of other coaches or software tools out there.

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#78

Post by nathanaldensr »

dmerrick wrote: post #10

I just want to give a mention to ChessNetwork on Twitch[1]. I watched many of the games of this series live via this channel, and it was great how the commentator had his own board to demonstrate the next few moves and explain the players' thinking. It was really interesting and relaxing. https://www.twitch.tv/chessnetwork

Jerry's great... if a little anonymous. ;)

I've watched most of his videos on his YouTube channel. He's not the most experienced player but his style of communication is very accessible, even to casual chess players. I'd especially check out his videos on Leela Chess Zero and Google Alpha Zero; they are a blast!

Re: Magnus Carlsen Beats Fabiano Caruana to Win World Chess Championship

#80

Post by antaviana »

nevi-me wrote: post #6

I was disappointed in Carlsen's 12th game draw. He might have etched something out of the game, as computers were clearly saying he had some slight advantage. After seeing the first games from today, I eased down on my disappointment. Today's first few games changed my mind. Carlsen remains the better player, because he does better where it matters; time pressure. Caruana seemed to battle with time a lot, I observed…

Here is some reasoning on why chess with humans should move to rapid chess: https://chess.stackexchange.com/questions/2662/how-popular-i...
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