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How Restaurants Got So Loud

theatlantic.com

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Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#221

Post by otterley »

err4nt wrote: post #209
otterley wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do want business, just not the kind that people who sit and stay bring. When you’re trying to improve your sales velocity, keeping existing customers moving so as not to dissuade new ones from coming in makes sense.

How does an empty café with bored looking staff invite new customers in? When I go into frequently-empty places I find that the staff, who should have all the time in the world to help, are actually more distant, because they're so used to filling up their time chatting together or doing other stuff that when a customer actually does show up it's like some unforeseen situation they didn't plan for.

"Not full" is not identical to empty. Busy, but not totally full, is the best of all worlds to the proprietor.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#222

Post by wenc »

pcarolan wrote: post #61

I work remotely and find myself working from a lot of Starbucks. The music level seems consistent no matter where you go to the point where it feels like a policy. It is just loud enough that you can't drown it out with a good set of headphones or take a conference call without annoying the rest of the group. It seems too consistent to be unintentional. Conversely, there's a new coffee shop in Chicago that is designe…

Eva's Cafe is one of the quietest cafes in Chicago. People talk in whispers there.

There are also a bunch of new cafes that are books oriented like Kibbitznest and Bibliophile (near the University of Chicago).

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#223

Post by JustSomeNobody »

jlokier wrote: post #108

There's an ice cream and bagel place in town. In the late evening it's consistently packed with people on their laptops or reading books. One day I noticed the music was much louder than usual, and asked the staff to turn it down. I figured it was a mistake because it was normally much quieter. They told me this was the new company policy. To set the music uncomfortably loud to make people leave, after finishing thei…

I remember growing up not wanting to go out to eat with my parents. They liked this certain cafeteria style restaurant where you'd grab a tray and slide it along picking out your dishes and paying at the end. I hated that place not because of the food, I could always find something to eat, but because it was so quiet I could hear the people around me eating. It was so disgusting.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#224

Post by pcarolan »

jtreminio wrote: post #109
pcarolan wrote: post #61

I work remotely and find myself working from a lot of Starbucks. The music level seems consistent no matter where you go to the point where it feels like a policy. It is just loud enough that you can't drown it out with a good set of headphones or take a conference call without annoying the rest of the group. It seems too consistent to be unintentional. Conversely, there's a new coffee shop in Chicago that is designe…

Honest question, have you considered it might be on purpose so you are not using Starbucks as your personal office?

Yes. I think that's what I'm saying and I also think that it is great that coffee shops are popping up to solve the job to be done of providing me with an affordable space to work at the cost of a few cups of coffee.

One thing I've noticed about a lot of coffee shops is that they have a big morning rush and a big lull during the day. Even Starbucks has a bunch of offers incentivizing you to come back for 'happy hour'. I imagine they are trying to spread out traffic throughout the day. It seems like offering a nice place to work during the day, might actually be more optimal than discouraging longer stays. Maybe Starbucks could just turn down their music between 10-4 and offer promotions to co-workers.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#226

Post by err4nt »

otterley wrote: post #221
err4nt wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does an empty café with bored looking staff invite new customers in? When I go into frequently-empty places I find that the staff, who should have all the time in the world to help, are actually more distant, because they're so used to filling up their time chatting together or doing other stuff that when a customer actually does show up it's like some unforeseen situation they didn't plan for.

"Not full" is not identical to empty. Busy, but not totally full, is the best of all worlds to the proprietor.

So going from 0 people, to 1 person (me) should help them out :D

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#227

Post by clairity »

decebalus1 wrote: post #182
jlokier wrote: post #108

There's an ice cream and bagel place in town. In the late evening it's consistently packed with people on their laptops or reading books. One day I noticed the music was much louder than usual, and asked the staff to turn it down. I figured it was a mistake because it was normally much quieter. They told me this was the new company policy. To set the music uncomfortably loud to make people leave, after finishing thei…

It probably won't be the most popular opinion but I'm siding with the business for this one. I never got people who use cafe bars, delis, etc.. as personal offices. I personally can't get 'in the zone' in such a public place where: - I need to buy/consume something every X minutes - have to overhear irrelevant stupid/mundane conversations - people have a habit of bringing their dogs everywhere now and I'm not even go…

even if you don't relate, other people have different desires and motivations and it's worth trying to understand that (for social harmony at the very least). you seem to want quiet and solitude in public places, but that's just not the norm. rather than distracting, i find cafes ideal places to work, as they have the right amount of low-recognition distraction (unlike home, where things are too quiet and my bed is so inviting).

you also seem to be looking at things negatively. here's an alternate view:

- you don't have to buy something on a timer.

- - get to know the owners/workers, and they'll enjoy your visits, no matter how long. most of the cafes i visit love it when i bring my dog for instance.

- - if a cafe is (nearly) empty, you sitting there provides natural marketing for the cafe in the form of social proof (no one likes being the only person in a business). i usually leave when i notice it getting full so others can enjoy it too, but if it's half empty, i have no qualms staying for a while without the pressure of buying something on a timer.

- stupid conversations are easy to tune out; interesting ones are the hard ones. at the very least, it feeds the superiority complex nicely.

- dogs are bundles of joy and love, and make (most) people happy.

- again, get to know and show interest in the owners/workers and develop rapport with them. they may even give you free stuff.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#228

Post by iamlemec »

compsciphd wrote: post #217

I read once, can't remember where, that once the sound in a room with people talking reaches a certain level, it will get increasingly loud. The reason being, if sound is below a certain level, we can hear each other while we speak at normal volumes and the other person near us will be able to understand us. However, once volume reaches a certain background level, we have to raise our voices to be understood over the…

Definitely consistent with my experience. One time I was in a restaurant where this sort of arms race dynamic was occurring, and at some point a guy just did one of those really loud two-fingered whistles, then in the resulting silence said something like "let's all try to keep it down in here". It worked incredibly well, and the effect was actually very persistent.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#229

Post by decebalus1 »

chosenbreed wrote: post #214
decebalus1 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably won't be the most popular opinion but I'm siding with the business for this one. I never got people who use cafe bars, delis, etc.. as personal offices. I personally can't get 'in the zone' in such a public place where: - I need to buy/consume something every X minutes - have to overhear irrelevant stupid/mundane conversations - people have a habit of bringing their dogs everywhere now and I'm not even go…

> - have to overhear irrelevant stupid/mundane conversations Quite often I get to eavesdrop on interesting conversations. Typically people launching new business ventures of various kinds.

like I said, stupid/mundane conversations

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#230

Post by johnvanommen »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #191
jlokier wrote: post #108

There's an ice cream and bagel place in town. In the late evening it's consistently packed with people on their laptops or reading books. One day I noticed the music was much louder than usual, and asked the staff to turn it down. I figured it was a mistake because it was normally much quieter. They told me this was the new company policy. To set the music uncomfortably loud to make people leave, after finishing thei…

Operating a restaurant is expensive. Rent is by the square foot, so you taking up a certain amount of space with your 1 tea per hour (max 2 teas?) won't pay their bills.

I managed restaurants for a few years. One consistent mistake that I saw, was that restaurant owners would rent more space than they needed. I think the owners over-estimated how popular things were going to be.

Because of this, one of the easiest ways to improve your odds of success, when you own a restaurant, is to lease LESS space than you need. Basically there's a lot of good reasons to make your customers wait in line:

1) You're not paying to rent the sidewalk in front of your restaurant

2) Having a few customers waiting out front is a great advertisement for your place.

Obviously, this isn't great for customers, but if you're a restaurateur it's awesome.

Out in Vegas, restaurants and clubs routinely pay people to wait out front to make their place seem "in-demand."

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