How Restaurants Got So Loud • Hacker News Board

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#141

Post by LoSboccacc » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #122

seanalltogether wrote: post #75

One thing I didn't see mentioned in the article is that loud restaurants can provide diners with a sense of privacy. In a sea of noise your conversation will easily be drowned out before reaching others. Additionally, more ambient noise means less chances of being irritated by other diners.

It also means I can't understand my wife when she speaks. It is bad enough at home with my kids yelling at the top of their lungs (any ideas on how to break them of this?), when we go out it is impossible.

> any ideas on how to break them of this?

separate them when play becomes loud. take away toys etc. restore peace, give the toys back.

they will scream and fight it a lot the first few time, but if you keep a constant, predictable and strict response they'll get the idea, eventually, that they need to play in acceptable ways.

also make it clear that it only applies in specific time/places (evening, home, public indoor building) and where it's acceptable (afternoons, parks, etc)

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#142

Post by erikpukinskis » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 3:58 PM UTC

kevincennis wrote: post #132

whatshisface wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noise is noise, and if you cancel it out it's gone. Sound waves obey the superposition principle, which means that if I take 1 psi and superimpose -1 psi, I get 1-1=0 psi.

That's true, of course. But it's much harder to actively cancel higher frequencies. This is why noise cancelling works brilliantly on an airplane (relatively low frequency background noise) but it does almost nothing to filter out the sounds of conversations around you.

I always thought it was because noise cancelling can only block repeated waves (like the sound of an engine whirring) but conversation is constant changing sound so it can’t be blocked.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#143

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 3:59 PM UTC

adwhit wrote: post #14

keiferski wrote: post #7

I'd love to read an analysis of how the world in general has gotten so loud. Even a few hundred years ago, the centers of massive cities like Paris, Rome, or Istanbul must have been significantly quieter, being that cars, horns, trains, speakers, boomboxes, industrial plants, airplanes and everything else that creates noise pollution didn't exist.

Cars must surely be the main cause. There is an interesting phenomenon known as "shifting baseline syndrome" where we tend to compare our environment to what we recall as a child and inevitably conclude that is has gotten nosier/busier/more polluted, not realizing that environment of our childhoods were already heavily degraded. The world in which we evolved would have been almost silent, almost all of the time, apar…

[deleted]

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#144

Post by dilap » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

tapland wrote: post #6

Locally (Stockholm, Sweden) the head of the city libraries has made a statement of battling the 'quietness norm' in libraries. Most of them now have playgrounds, one in Kista (where I happened to live at the time) won awards for best library in the world and in Sweden the same year. It was completely unusable for what me and my fiance usually do at the library. The study rooms had the ventilation system for the build…

This is blowing my mind. Why would you want to change the "quietness norm" at libraries??

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#145

Post by jtreminio » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #122

seanalltogether wrote: post #75

One thing I didn't see mentioned in the article is that loud restaurants can provide diners with a sense of privacy. In a sea of noise your conversation will easily be drowned out before reaching others. Additionally, more ambient noise means less chances of being irritated by other diners.

It also means I can't understand my wife when she speaks. It is bad enough at home with my kids yelling at the top of their lungs (any ideas on how to break them of this?), when we go out it is impossible.

Use a water spray bottle - No one, including [children], like to be squirted with water, so you can try a quick spritz at your [child] if they are somewhere or doing something they shouldn't be.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#146

Post by erikpukinskis » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

apacheCamel wrote: post #48

damck wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libraries aren't supposed to be "fun".

I feel like this is a very negative way to view the situation. Libraries should totally be "fun". It should be "fun" to go and find a book that you enjoy or just spend time reading in an area dedicated to the love of books. It shouldn't be a place to just drop the kids off and leave, but it should be a place kids want to go. Reading can be fun and I almost feel like it is a "trendy thing" of my generation (Millennial…

Where have you seen the reading hate trend?

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#147

Post by rhacker » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 4:08 PM UTC

jtreminio wrote: post #109

pcarolan wrote: post #61

I work remotely and find myself working from a lot of Starbucks. The music level seems consistent no matter where you go to the point where it feels like a policy. It is just loud enough that you can't drown it out with a good set of headphones or take a conference call without annoying the rest of the group. It seems too consistent to be unintentional. Conversely, there's a new coffee shop in Chicago that is designe…

Honest question, have you considered it might be on purpose so you are not using Starbucks as your personal office?

It seems a bit strange that they encourage laptop usage at Starbucks then if they don't want people to use it as an office. The have laptop plug in ports at special bars and tables all over the place.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#148

Post by briandear » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

philpem wrote: post #9

fredley wrote: post #5

One thing that's becoming near-impossible is finding places to drink (as in pubs or bars) without piped music. This contributes significantly to noise. It's done of course so that we shout ourselves hoarse trying to have a conversation, so we buy more drinks to lubricate our throat, but even formerly quiet pubs near me have started doing it.

I help organise events and it's been our biggest complaint for some venues: that as the afternoon progresses, the music gets so loud it's impossible to hold a conversation. We pass the complaints along, but the response is usually "Corporate insists we do this, we hate it too, apparently it makes people buy more drinks". In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away.

> In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away

It would really depend on the venue, but I managed and worked in a few bars and clubs in the mid 2000s and the daytime crowd preferred more quiet, but then in the evening, if the music was soft, there was a perception that the bar was “dead” or had fewer people tha. It actually did. A loud bar with few people gets more interest from the potential patrons because it’s perceived as more lively and crowded than it may actually be. Then it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy and actually becomes more lively and crowded. When your business is based on customer volume, quiet and contemplative is a fast way to go out of business. Exceptions are high end, romantic martini bars selling $18 drinks or scotch bars selling high end spirits to a discerning clientele. For your average brew-pub or standard “bar,” silence equals death. You can see this anywhere there is a strip of bars and clubs, the quiet places are the ones not selling as much. Most people go to bars at night for the purpose of socializing and having fun. Most bar patrons don’t associate “fun” with quiet. Anyone that has worked in the bar business knows that you make more money with loud than you do with quiet — with some exceptions of course.

Restaurants on the other hand, in my experience, quiet does better for the restaurants that have been around awhile, while loud and lively tends to prop up the newer places because the “energy” reinforces the “hype” around perceived popularity.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#149

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 4:12 PM UTC

mnw21cam wrote: post #64

fredley wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner and I are 'mystery shoppers' for restaurants. We have our bill covered plus a bit extra on top (but have to fill out hefty, detailed questionnaires afterwards). One of the things there's always a whole section on is timing: every single interaction has a time-window in which it must occur. You must be greeted within (t1), you must be seated within (t2). Plates must be cleared within (t3), you must have a '…

I personally hate it when a waiter comes up, interrupts my meal, and asks if everything is OK with my food. Are you seriously saying restaurants are being encouraged to do this?

Hate is a bit strong; it annoys me too, probably more than is reasonable.

I assumed it was to cut costs for people who complain at the end to try and get free food.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#150

Post by jimison » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

mnw21cam wrote: post #64

fredley wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My partner and I are 'mystery shoppers' for restaurants. We have our bill covered plus a bit extra on top (but have to fill out hefty, detailed questionnaires afterwards). One of the things there's always a whole section on is timing: every single interaction has a time-window in which it must occur. You must be greeted within (t1), you must be seated within (t2). Plates must be cleared within (t3), you must have a '…

I personally hate it when a waiter comes up, interrupts my meal, and asks if everything is OK with my food. Are you seriously saying restaurants are being encouraged to do this?

My father believed that truly great restaurants don't do this, because they KNOW their food is perfect.

Practically speaking, though, dpeck is right... shortly after the food is dropped, the waiter should confirm the meal is to the customer's expectations. This is also the chance for customers to ask for condiments, get a replacement fork for the one they dropped, etc. Nothing worse than sitting in front of a hot meal you can't eat and being unable to get the waiter's attention.