How Restaurants Got So Loud • Hacker News Board

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#31

Post by dingaling » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:45 AM UTC

fredley wrote: post #5

One thing that's becoming near-impossible is finding places to drink (as in pubs or bars) without piped music. This contributes significantly to noise. It's done of course so that we shout ourselves hoarse trying to have a conversation, so we buy more drinks to lubricate our throat, but even formerly quiet pubs near me have started doing it.

In the UK my partner and I have started going to Wetherspoons pubs. They're reviled in middle-class circles as a cheap, chavvy chain that buys-out traditional pubs but they're clean, friendly and QUIET.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#32

Post by adrianN » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:46 AM UTC

rubinelli wrote: post #28

keiferski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libraries are not playgrounds. This idea that the primary functional purpose of an important space should be some kind of afterthought is rather depressing, but I guess is follows from the entertainment-centric culture we live in. The purpose of a library is to read, not to entertain your kids.

Kids that grow up associating libraries with fun are much more likely to want to visit them after they learn to read. Libraries are closing down because they don't have any readers.

I don't go to libraries anymore because I can get any book I want for 3-4 Euros shipped to my door.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#33

Post by Illniyar » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:47 AM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #17

willvarfar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of the making-libraries-loud (loud as in happy) movement, but I'm usually bringing my kids to browse the shelves and pick books to bring home, not to actually spend time there reading them. In my experience kids find quiet libraries intimidating. (Which is at odds with my own preferences, I should add, but I prioritize the kids.) What the libraries need is a quiet reading room, rather like the trains ha…

Libraries are not playgrounds. This idea that the primary functional purpose of an important space should be some kind of afterthought is rather depressing, but I guess is follows from the entertainment-centric culture we live in. The purpose of a library is to read, not to entertain your kids.

The purpose of libraries has been completely ousted by the internet. It is no longer a place that makes vast knowledge attainable to the average person, that's the internet now.

You can either have no libraries at all or libraries that cater to a different purpose, one that they can offer better then your phone.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#34

Post by watt » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:47 AM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #17

willvarfar wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a big fan of the making-libraries-loud (loud as in happy) movement, but I'm usually bringing my kids to browse the shelves and pick books to bring home, not to actually spend time there reading them. In my experience kids find quiet libraries intimidating. (Which is at odds with my own preferences, I should add, but I prioritize the kids.) What the libraries need is a quiet reading room, rather like the trains ha…

Libraries are not playgrounds. This idea that the primary functional purpose of an important space should be some kind of afterthought is rather depressing, but I guess is follows from the entertainment-centric culture we live in. The purpose of a library is to read, not to entertain your kids.

If children grow up associating libraries with a place that is not fun, support for libraries will die after that generation.

The Berlin city libraries absolutely have spaces for children to play (loudly) and also make point of events with readings for children, and so on. A generation will grow up associating libraries as part of their life.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#35

Post by blhack » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:50 AM UTC

adwhit wrote: post #14

keiferski wrote: post #7

I'd love to read an analysis of how the world in general has gotten so loud. Even a few hundred years ago, the centers of massive cities like Paris, Rome, or Istanbul must have been significantly quieter, being that cars, horns, trains, speakers, boomboxes, industrial plants, airplanes and everything else that creates noise pollution didn't exist.

Cars must surely be the main cause. There is an interesting phenomenon known as "shifting baseline syndrome" where we tend to compare our environment to what we recall as a child and inevitably conclude that is has gotten nosier/busier/more polluted, not realizing that environment of our childhoods were already heavily degraded. The world in which we evolved would have been almost silent, almost all of the time, apar…

How much time have you spent in the woods? It's definitly far, far from quiet. At least where I grew up. Maybe in the dead of the night, but here in the middle of the city, on a Main Street, it is also so quiet in my room that I can hear my la croix fizzing from 8 feet away.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#36

Post by damck » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:50 AM UTC

watt wrote: post #34

keiferski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libraries are not playgrounds. This idea that the primary functional purpose of an important space should be some kind of afterthought is rather depressing, but I guess is follows from the entertainment-centric culture we live in. The purpose of a library is to read, not to entertain your kids.

If children grow up associating libraries with a place that is not fun, support for libraries will die after that generation. The Berlin city libraries absolutely have spaces for children to play (loudly) and also make point of events with readings for children, and so on. A generation will grow up associating libraries as part of their life.

Libraries aren't supposed to be "fun".

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#37

Post by ekianjo » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:52 AM UTC

thom wrote: post #21

keiferski wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libraries are not playgrounds. This idea that the primary functional purpose of an important space should be some kind of afterthought is rather depressing, but I guess is follows from the entertainment-centric culture we live in. The purpose of a library is to read, not to entertain your kids.

Libraries are repositories of books for people to take away. The idea that they need to provide office space for people who could just as well read at home is stupid.

you know what else is stupid? to assume everyone has a quiet home they can read in.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#38

Post by matthewheath » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:53 AM UTC

probably_wrong wrote: post #19

adwhit wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars must surely be the main cause. There is an interesting phenomenon known as "shifting baseline syndrome" where we tend to compare our environment to what we recall as a child and inevitably conclude that is has gotten nosier/busier/more polluted, not realizing that environment of our childhoods were already heavily degraded. The world in which we evolved would have been almost silent, almost all of the time, apar…

I agree with cars being the problem. I only thought about that when I learned that laws were drafted to force electric cars to make noise - for a brief couple of seconds I realised how different the world would be if all cars were silent... and then I got my hopes crushed. I truly cannot picture what life would be like without car noise and light pollution.

In the UK at least, there's a good reason behind the law. Electric cars are required to make noise so that visually impaired people know a car is approaching.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#39

Post by blhack » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:53 AM UTC

fredley wrote: post #5

One thing that's becoming near-impossible is finding places to drink (as in pubs or bars) without piped music. This contributes significantly to noise. It's done of course so that we shout ourselves hoarse trying to have a conversation, so we buy more drinks to lubricate our throat, but even formerly quiet pubs near me have started doing it.

Even worse is television in restaurants. There is this GREAT restaurant with near me with a little side room that has a really cozy fireplace in it (VERY rare for Phoenix). The lighting for the room, however, has been destroyed by the TV. Also who on earth wants to watch ads while they are eating dinner? It's mind boggling because the place is also somewhat high end.

Re: How Restaurants Got So Loud

#40

Post by sgift » Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 10:55 AM UTC

eponeponepon wrote: post #29

thom wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libraries are repositories of books for people to take away. The idea that they need to provide office space for people who could just as well read at home is stupid.

Good luck taking a Gutenberg bible or a Shakespeare first folio away to read quietly at home.

Comparing a city library with an extremely specialized institution which holds a Gutenberg bible or a Shakespeare first folio is ridiculous. These are separate institutions which only share the name library.