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Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

deadspin.com

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Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#101

Post by BurningFrog »

colmvp wrote: post #66
gojomo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might spice-up the whole match to have this final-someone's-gotta-win tiebreaker before other tiebreaker matches, and then hold the result "in case it's needed". That'd be in the same spirit as this recommendation to have Soccer penalty-kick shootouts before overtime. https://slate.com/culture/2016/06/how-to-fix-the-penalty-sho... That is: you know who will win if all other tiebreakers draw, giving the side which…

It still irks me that something as rare and prestigious as the World Cup (and Olympic Hockey) can get decided by shootouts. I mean, I get it, football has a huge pitch and it'd probably be ridiculous to have guys exhausted, barely able to jog at the 150th minute. That said, one of the things I love about NHL playoff hockey is that without compromise, it's first goal wins overtime, where players are willing to do ever…

In hockey, players rest most of the time, and can keep playing much longer. Also skating takes much less effort than running.

A soccer player must first of all be a decent mid distance runner: They run an average of 7 miles per game!

In soccer, I think the longer they play, the more tired people get, the more it rewards defense, and you'd just see very few goals after 120 minutes.

You could imagine things like removing the goalies to get a playing result that's not penalties.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#102

Post by nabla9 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #91
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “It's strategic, it's rational, and still it's disappointing.” You’ve lost me there. I don’t see how disappoint is the conclusion. It seems equivalent to suggesting the player should take risks or chances based on what might stylistically please the audience as opposed to what might win the match overall. I’ve never understood spectators watching competitors and thinking, why won’t they do what I want them to do in…

It's not just about pleasing the audience. Showing respect and appreciation for the game itself is important to chess players, and to competitive sports overall. People who follow and participate in competitions passionately don't usually just try to maximize their chances to win, they also want to deliver the best effort they can. Magnus Carlsen specifically was always respected for his fighting spirit. In his champ…

When trying to win does not produce beautiful games, then the game itself is faulty.

They should change the rules of the games. Like time auction suggested where draw is win for black pieces.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#103

Post by dang »

mindgam3 wrote: post #79

Reposting this from a comment thread below which mentions the chess.com "what would have happened" computer playoff, as I think the HN community (who are far more well versed in computer chess than I) would benefit from a better understanding of how high-level competitive chess between humans actually works. tl;dr: In order to fully appreciate how bizarre Carlsen's draw offer was at that moment, you need to take into…

Please don't copy-paste comments in multiple places on HN. It's a fine comment, but doing that strictly lowers the signal/noise ratio.

If you want us to move a comment to a better context, we're happy to help with such requests at hn@ycombinator.com.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#104

Post by BurningFrog »

mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #97
Barrin92 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about pleasing the audience. Showing respect and appreciation for the game itself is important to chess players, and to competitive sports overall. People who follow and participate in competitions passionately don't usually just try to maximize their chances to win, they also want to deliver the best effort they can. Magnus Carlsen specifically was always respected for his fighting spirit. In his champ…

This reply borders on incoherent to me. What is best effort if not choosing the course of action you deem gives you the best chance to win? Exhausting yourself and risking a blunder in the final classical match just because other people want to see the spectacle of it? That doesn’t seem like “effort” at all. Why do soccer players make back passes from offensive positions when tied 0-0? You think the coach gives a shi…

Yes, OP is talking about being respected by the chess world, not merely winning the title.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#106

Post by adharmad »

rhacker wrote: post #92

Is any of this being livestreamed anywhere? Specifically tomorrow's matches? 7am just seems so worth it after reading the exciting tie-breaks today.

World chess (https://worldchess.com) has live streaming with Judith Polgar commenting.

Chess24 also has the same with Peter Svidler, Guramishvili, Anish Giri and Grischuk commenting.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#107

Post by thrower123 »

colmvp wrote: post #66
gojomo wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might spice-up the whole match to have this final-someone's-gotta-win tiebreaker before other tiebreaker matches, and then hold the result "in case it's needed". That'd be in the same spirit as this recommendation to have Soccer penalty-kick shootouts before overtime. https://slate.com/culture/2016/06/how-to-fix-the-penalty-sho... That is: you know who will win if all other tiebreakers draw, giving the side which…

It still irks me that something as rare and prestigious as the World Cup (and Olympic Hockey) can get decided by shootouts. I mean, I get it, football has a huge pitch and it'd probably be ridiculous to have guys exhausted, barely able to jog at the 150th minute. That said, one of the things I love about NHL playoff hockey is that without compromise, it's first goal wins overtime, where players are willing to do ever…

I fervently believe that soccer would be a much more entertaining game if the substitution rules were significantly loosened. When I played in high school, substitution was allowed on any dead ball situation, and we effectively used something like a hockey line shift, with midfielders shuttling in and out every five minutes. The result was that you could play at a much higher tempo than if you had to conserve energy for the entire match. It was far more enjoyable both as a player and a spectator.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#108

Post by hug »

BurningFrog wrote: post #101
colmvp wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still irks me that something as rare and prestigious as the World Cup (and Olympic Hockey) can get decided by shootouts. I mean, I get it, football has a huge pitch and it'd probably be ridiculous to have guys exhausted, barely able to jog at the 150th minute. That said, one of the things I love about NHL playoff hockey is that without compromise, it's first goal wins overtime, where players are willing to do ever…

In hockey, players rest most of the time, and can keep playing much longer. Also skating takes much less effort than running. A soccer player must first of all be a decent mid distance runner: They run an average of 7 miles per game! In soccer, I think the longer they play, the more tired people get, the more it rewards defense, and you'd just see very few goals after 120 minutes. You could imagine things like removi…

You don't have to imagine to find a sport with greater running distances, match lengths, and goals-without-a-goalie: Just go watch an Aussie Rules Football match.

They have roughly 2 hours of play, and it's not unknown for players to run over 11 miles a match.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#109

Post by mindgam3 »

dang wrote: post #103
mindgam3 wrote: post #79

Reposting this from a comment thread below which mentions the chess.com "what would have happened" computer playoff, as I think the HN community (who are far more well versed in computer chess than I) would benefit from a better understanding of how high-level competitive chess between humans actually works. tl;dr: In order to fully appreciate how bizarre Carlsen's draw offer was at that moment, you need to take into…

Please don't copy-paste comments in multiple places on HN. It's a fine comment, but doing that strictly lowers the signal/noise ratio. If you want us to move a comment to a better context, we're happy to help with such requests at hn@ycombinator.com.

Got it. Sorry about that and thanks for the heads up. I didn’t realize it was possible to move comments like that after the update window expires.

Re: Armageddon Looms over World Chess Champs after Carlsen’s Shocking Decision

#110

Post by BurningFrog »

hug wrote: post #108
BurningFrog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In hockey, players rest most of the time, and can keep playing much longer. Also skating takes much less effort than running. A soccer player must first of all be a decent mid distance runner: They run an average of 7 miles per game! In soccer, I think the longer they play, the more tired people get, the more it rewards defense, and you'd just see very few goals after 120 minutes. You could imagine things like removi…

You don't have to imagine to find a sport with greater running distances, match lengths, and goals-without-a-goalie: Just go watch an Aussie Rules Football match. They have roughly 2 hours of play, and it's not unknown for players to run over 11 miles a match.

I imagine there aren't a lot of drawn games?
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