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We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

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Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#731

Post by cultus »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #716
kiliantics wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worker's unions helped win the majority of our rights in modern democracies. I wish this fact was more widely appreciated.

> Worker's unions helped win the majority of our rights in modern democracies. I wish this fact was more widely appreciated. The problem with modern unions, particularly in tech, is that the legacy structure is inapt for current problems. Tech workers don't need a union to negotiate compensation, they're compensated fine already. They don't need a huge bureaucratic structure for engaging in long-term detailed negotia…

> Tech workers don't need a union to negotiate compensation, they're compensated fine already.

Software one of the highest margins of any industry. They can afford to pay more, especially since they are constantly whining about "shortages" of tech workers.

http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/datafile/...

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#732

Post by Fins »

That's nice that the kids are standing up for something (that's unlikely to affect them, of course). But I would be far more impressed if they stood up against something closer to home, like personalized search results, dark patterns to make sure they monitor you, or monitoring whether you agreed to it or not, misuse of private data, creation of filter bubbles etc. etc. But that might actually affect their paychecks, so no, can't have that.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#733

Post by dsfyu404ed »

yourbandsucks wrote: post #684
throwawaysea wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Labeling someone's thoughtful arguments ('conservative') serves only to invalidate those arguments via an appeal to emotion or an association fallacy.

What's especially funny is that in 2018, the red scare is 'liberal' and wanting to work with the Chinese is 'conservative'.

The more things change the more things stay the same

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#734

Post by AnthonyMouse »

tomlock wrote: post #722
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worker's unions helped win the majority of our rights in modern democracies. I wish this fact was more widely appreciated. The problem with modern unions, particularly in tech, is that the legacy structure is inapt for current problems. Tech workers don't need a union to negotiate compensation, they're compensated fine already. They don't need a huge bureaucratic structure for engaging in long-term detailed negotia…

> they're compensated fine already. I disagree, given the massive cash reserves the tech companies have. Yes, having a higher salary would be ridiculous in a lot of these cases, but we should moderate that through legislation that benefits the most people - not by a public company further lining the coffers of its owners. Apple and Google particularly have a lot of cash just lying around, and that cash is the result…

> I disagree, given the massive cash reserves the tech companies have.

They have massive cash reverses because the tax laws have encouraged that rather than paying it to shareholders as dividends. And that level of return is necessary because of the nature of the industry -- you have to spend millions of dollars trying to create the next tech giant before you know whether you've succeeded or not, and most of the time you haven't. The returns to success have to be enough to overcome the high failure rate.

Most of the employees aren't taking the same level of risk. If you work for a company for five years taking home a six figure salary and that company fails, you don't have to give back your salary and in a few months you're working for another company making the same amount of money.

If you think you can do better on your own, risking your own time and money instead of taking outside investment, go right ahead -- but then shouldn't it be you who gets more of the reward if you succeed rather than the people you hire in after you're already an established success?

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#735

Post by Fomite »

tomschlick wrote: post #690
dsr_ wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the outrage: if the police have armored vehicles, that means that they perceive a need for armored vehicles. When officers walk past them, they are reminded that they are needed. When officers are inside them, they feel simultaneously invulnerable and threatened -- all this armor means that someone must want to kill them. From the other side, a community that sees MRAPs going past has to believe that there's a…

So we are talking about perception above all else? Great, but there are use cases for armored vehicles. Whether its an MRAP or a Bearcat. There are always going to be barricaded persons, hostage situations, active shooters, riots, and natural disasters that need responding to and those seem to be the best tools for the job. The goal is to get as close to the subject as possible without anyone getting hurt. From there…

Perception is an important thing when it comes to interacting with a community.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#736

Post by panorama »

pavelrub wrote: post #608
ipsa wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can solve this "if against Z, then what about X"? Think of the user. Does a user benefit from being able to clear a permanent record, long after punishment has been served? Does a user benefit if Google facilitates government spying? You can be for the right to be forgotten (and admit to its abuses by politicians and rich hucksters), and against government censorship. This distinction is powerful and therefor oft…

> Does a user benefit if Google facilitates government spying? Yes. Chinese users will most definitely greatly benefit from having a censored Google in China instead of having just a censored Baido. The only people who won't benefit from it are self entitled 20-year-old Google employees across the ocean who in reality don't give a shit about Chinese people, what they want, or how the average Chinese person feels like…

That you called it "Baido" (unless typo) implies to me that you're not Chinese, and with that assumption, your post also reads incredibly condescending. Chinese tech is not subpar across the board, there are very smart people there who choose to work on the problems they choose to work on. Some in support of greater state surveillance, others not.

What you have here are American engineers choosing to not work in support of greater state surveillance for another country. Reducing it to thinking that all they're doing is wanting to virtue-signal is condescending.

Can you not see that the crux of your post, calling out others' supposed condescension, appears to be projecting a bit?

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#737

Post by [deleted] »

kiliantics wrote: post #600
shareometry wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A great example of how working people have more power than they think if they're willing to risk dollars and cents for matters of right and wrong. I believe this is key. If more folks at more organizations were brave like this and willing to take the risk, a good chunk of the problems our civilization is facing might be greatly improved.

Worker's unions helped win the majority of our rights in modern democracies. I wish this fact was more widely appreciated.

[deleted]

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#738

Post by Fomite »

chrisseaton wrote: post #489
tomschlick wrote: post #443

> MRAP's are for combat, not police work While they were designed for combat, they are effectively the same thing that Brinks uses to transport money. They are meant to stop bad things from killing the people inside. They have 0 offensive weapons. They are entirely defensive vehicles that have been used to rescue downed officers, civilians in harms way (gunfire), and multiple times in natural disasters where other ve…

Right - an MRAP is a 'battlefield taxi' - it's a basic vehicle to move around a hostile area - it's defensive. You aren't doing anything offensive from inside an MRAP unless it has a remote weapons station on top. Great for collecting casualties.

"Battlefield." "Hostile area". "Collecting Casualties".

Cannot imagine why people might be concerned about its use in law enforcement.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#739

Post by ameister14 »

ultrasounder wrote: post #336
alangibson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You deserve massive credit for striking a blow against this madness. A great example of how working people have more power than they think if they're willing to risk dollars and cents for matters of right and wrong. I say that fully realizing that not everyone is in the financial position where they can risk a fight with their employer. You can't expect everyone to be Ghandi.

"You can't expect everyone to be Ghandi.". You meant Gandhi.

No, he meant ગાંધી

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#740

Post by AlexCoventry »

Multicomp wrote: post #566
tomschlick wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have personally seen Humvee's driving on the roads so I dont see why not. Basically an MRAP is just a big truck so as long as it didn't break any traffic laws (too wide, too heavy, etc) then I'd assume its fine. Would depend per state though.

Anecdote from 6 months ago: Humvees are often sold without title for $4K to $8K in GA. Titled vehicles (the ones that can legally drive on public roads) go for $22k for a beater on up.

Why the huge disparity? Is it that hard to get them title?
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