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Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

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Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#11

Post by Someone1234 »

DesaiAshu wrote: post #9
TACIXAT wrote: post #3

This is great. I love that people are taking on the higher education space. During my masters I would take the uni's online courses that were of absolute garbage quality. I've gotten better content from Udemy for 45$. The only reason they could get $3500 per class from me is because they were one of a limited few accredited universities in my area. Competition in this space is much needed. I hope that Make School wil…

Thanks for the positive feedback :) We're not as cheap as online Udemy courses due to high touch instruction at a physical campus. Though we are substantially undercutting traditional bachelor's degrees on cost. Students will on average pay ~$100k for their degree, but because they enter the workforce 2 years sooner they also have $200k more earnings than their peers (pre-tax/tuition). From a net-worth standpoint, th…

> Students will on average pay ~$100k for their degree, but because they enter the workforce 2 years sooner they also have $200k more earnings than their peers (pre-tax/tuition). From a net-worth standpoint, this ends up being comparable to getting a full ride at a 4 year institution.

Perhaps avoid going into specifics next time.

Is it true to say that earlier graduation makes it cheaper? Yes.

Is it true to say that a graduate can gain additional work experience while others study? Yes.

But you went way too far (pre-tax dollars, no cost of living, assumptions about $100K income/year, and equivocating it to a full ride at a normal college). Arguments like that sound like the sales pitches at Phoenix and other sketchy degree programs, and you definitely don't want to be associated with that.

$70K/year is what many would pay for in-state including living on campus. It is definitely on the high end (although I don't know if it is more normal in California).

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#13

Post by dragonwriter »

aphextron wrote: post #12

Sorry but 100k is just absurd. A computer science AS degree at any decent California community college is about $1500 instate tuition, and would be vastly more respectable and useful.

> A computer science AS degree at any decent California community college is about $1500 instate tuition,

That's about 32 semester units ($46/unit). An AS typically has a minimum of 60 semester units as a requirement.

Plus, an accredited BS is likely to be better regarded than an AS for many purposes.

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#14

Post by paul7986 »

aphextron wrote: post #12

Sorry but 100k is just absurd. A computer science AS degree at any decent California community college is about $1500 instate tuition, and would be vastly more respectable and useful.

Even cheaper learning yourself by building out random ideas, posting your code on GitHub and blogging about how much you like to code/create stuff.

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#15

Post by dragonwriter »

Someone1234 wrote: post #11
DesaiAshu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the positive feedback :) We're not as cheap as online Udemy courses due to high touch instruction at a physical campus. Though we are substantially undercutting traditional bachelor's degrees on cost. Students will on average pay ~$100k for their degree, but because they enter the workforce 2 years sooner they also have $200k more earnings than their peers (pre-tax/tuition). From a net-worth standpoint, th…

> Students will on average pay ~$100k for their degree, but because they enter the workforce 2 years sooner they also have $200k more earnings than their peers (pre-tax/tuition). From a net-worth standpoint, this ends up being comparable to getting a full ride at a 4 year institution. Perhaps avoid going into specifics next time. Is it true to say that earlier graduation makes it cheaper? Yes. Is it true to say that…

> $70K/year is what many would pay for in-state including living on campus.

A quick check of UCs shows total all-inclusive annual cost estimate for in-state students tend to be $25-35K depending on living situation. (Which includes things like housing and food that getting a degree sooner doesn't actually save that much, if anything, on.)

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#16

Post by aphextron »

dragonwriter wrote: post #13
aphextron wrote: post #12

Sorry but 100k is just absurd. A computer science AS degree at any decent California community college is about $1500 instate tuition, and would be vastly more respectable and useful.

> A computer science AS degree at any decent California community college is about $1500 instate tuition, That's about 32 semester units ($46/unit). An AS typically has a minimum of 60 semester units as a requirement. Plus, an accredited BS is likely to be better regarded than an AS for many purposes.

>That's about 32 semester units ($46/unit). An AS typically has a minimum of 60 semester units as a requirement.

So about $2700. But it depends on your income, and most sudents end up paying almost no fees at all thanks to the Governor’s Grant. San Francisco City College is actually completely free for all residents of the city now.

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#17

Post by dragonwriter »

aphextron wrote: post #16
dragonwriter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A computer science AS degree at any decent California community college is about $1500 instate tuition, That's about 32 semester units ($46/unit). An AS typically has a minimum of 60 semester units as a requirement. Plus, an accredited BS is likely to be better regarded than an AS for many purposes.

>That's about 32 semester units ($46/unit). An AS typically has a minimum of 60 semester units as a requirement. So about $2700. But it depends on your income, and most sudents end up paying almost no fees at all thanks to the Governor’s Grant. San Francisco City College is actually completely free for all residents of the city now.

> most sudents end up paying almost no fees at all thanks to the Governor’s Grant.

That's because California Community colleges right now draw a huge share of students from the low income (sub-150% of federal povertly line) families that are eligible for the Promise Grant (formerly Board of Governor's Fee Waiver.) But that's not the segment of the potential market that is most likely to be weighing Community College against a $100K 2-year accelerated BS program, most likely.

> San Francisco City College is actually completely free for all residents of the city now.

And that is awesome, but again not relevant to most of the potential market at issue here, I think.

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#18

Post by DesaiAshu »

Someone1234 wrote: post #11
DesaiAshu wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the positive feedback :) We're not as cheap as online Udemy courses due to high touch instruction at a physical campus. Though we are substantially undercutting traditional bachelor's degrees on cost. Students will on average pay ~$100k for their degree, but because they enter the workforce 2 years sooner they also have $200k more earnings than their peers (pre-tax/tuition). From a net-worth standpoint, th…

> Students will on average pay ~$100k for their degree, but because they enter the workforce 2 years sooner they also have $200k more earnings than their peers (pre-tax/tuition). From a net-worth standpoint, this ends up being comparable to getting a full ride at a 4 year institution. Perhaps avoid going into specifics next time. Is it true to say that earlier graduation makes it cheaper? Yes. Is it true to say that…

I hear your point. To avoid getting into trouble I'll keep the framing as better than a full tuition scholarship (rather than full ride). It's already a good deal so no need to take risks with marketing :)

If you're curious, here's the math I'm using (assuming that our average salary will stay around $95k and long term salary trajectory will map to traditional stats). Since our tuition is a percent of earnings, the math is relatively straightforward:

Make School:

- Tuition = 20% of 5 years salary = ~1.1x starting salary = $1.1S (assumes 5% annual salary increase)

- Living expenses = 4 * annual cost of living = $4L

- Earnings = $1.03S * 0.65 * 2 (assumes 35% tax rate, 5% annual salary increase)

- Net worth after 4 years = $0.24S - $4L

Full Tuition Scholarship:

- Tuition = $0

- Living expenses = $4L

- Earnings = $0

- Net worth after 4 years = -$4L

Full Ride Scholarship:

- Tuition = $0

- Living expenses = $0

- Earnings = $0

- Net worth after 4 years = $0

To plug in some numbers, our students' cost of living tends to be ~$1500/mo, while our average starting salary is approximately $95k.

- Make School case net worth after 4 years: -$49k

- Full tuition case net worth: $-72k

- Full ride case net worth: $0

However, this doesn't factor in compounding gains of starting off at a higher salary (http://eagle.gmu.edu/newsroom/843/). The top CS programs in the country (Stanford, MIT) are currently at ~$95k average starting salary, while the overall average is ~$60k. At the point their peers are graduating college, our alums will have a $10k+ higher salary. This difference should compensate for the -$49k difference over a long career.

Since tuition and tax rates are both proportional to income, the numbers won't change substantially if salary is lower.

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#19

Post by leroy_masochist »

jvrossb wrote: post #6
leroy_masochist wrote: post #5

Do they take the GI Bill now?

Make School co-founder here - now that we have accreditor approval, we're going through the necessary steps to ensure the program is GI Bill eligible. It's looking like we'll be able to confirm early next year.

That's awesome! One suggestion -- if the VA slow-rolls anything, call up Pelosi's staff. Not only is she your local SF rep, she will be looking for quick wins as she takes back the gavel and improving transition opportunities for vets is hot right now in DC.

Re: Make School (YC W12) gains accreditation for 2-year applied CS bachelor’s degree

#20

Post by drawnwren »

aphextron wrote: post #12

Sorry but 100k is just absurd. A computer science AS degree at any decent California community college is about $1500 instate tuition, and would be vastly more respectable and useful.

That's a good thought, but low tuition costs mean CS professors at California community colleges are making close to nothing.

Warning, anecdotal evidence, but I took CS at CCSF and when asked how to tell if a number was prime in Java, the professor responded "I don't know, google it. There's probably a function that does that."

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