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We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
271–280 of 888 posts
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
>China watches its citizens abroad Now with increased efficiency with Dragonfly technology. Find enemies of the state with our world wide database, US and EU results included. All brought to you by the Alphabet platform.
Think about the synergy that this could unlock, Alphabet comes with the citizen tracking service (not malicious, just for ads, obviously) and plug it to their citizen scoring service. Further research could be done on integrating this new dataset with Project Maven, think about the opportunities of engaging only with end users with score below a threshold. Did I see something like this on Black Mirror?
You did see something like this on Black Mirror, specifically because Black Mirror wrote the episode based on the Chinese social credit system.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> a massive proponent of free speech and human rights Yeah, 'human rights', right, so that's why they're so[1] focused[2] on separating families[3], and I guess 'free speech' is what allows the POTUS to be a racist[4], fear-mongering, corrupt[5] liar[6]? Or is 'free speech' the thing that allows denial[7] of climate change[8] even while California burns to the ground? And I guess with 'human rights' that goes along…
Nobody is "focused on separating families" and if you think so you've just fallen victim to divisive propaganda. I'm not sure why you scare quote free speech and then use an example of free speech to somehow disprove free speech. Free speech isn't supposed to be just for propagating popular ideas, that's the entire point FFS. >And I guess with 'human rights' that goes along with the USA's tendency to start senseless[…
>Nobody is "focused on separating families" and if you think so you've just fallen victim to divisive propaganda.
It's pretty clear that Stephen Miller has been pushing specifically for family separation. He appears to be fairly "focused" on the issue as a strategy in his goal of limiting immigration (legal and illegal) in general.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#274As someone who lived most of his life in a dictatorship, I really struggle to understand the logic of these employees. I was actually surprised Google stepped out of China a couple of years ago and felt like the decision was taken by a bunch of people who don't understand what it's like to live in a non-democratic country. Do they think that everybody in China cares that their internet is censored or that they're bei…
It's not just the censorship. Let's say Google opens up in China and then a month later China comes to them and says "we need the names of everyone who searched for the term 'Uyghur
concentration camp' and lives in such and such region." Google then has two choices: give over the names to the Chinese government or immediately pack up and leave China.
It's practically a given that China will eventually demand this of Google, which means that Google has presumably already evaluated this possibility and decided to go into China anyway.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
All the more reason to take a stand right now.
Why single out China though? If Google had to stop doing business in any country that forces it to censor stuff, they would not be allowed anywhere, I think even the US forces them to filter out illegal gambling. Where does it stop?
Because China has political internment camps.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#276I morally judge (not condemn) people who work at Google. If you can get a job at Google, you can get a job almost anywhere. There is tons of great work out there for you. People who work at Google are choosing to aid in the suppression of human freedom.
> If you can get a job at Google, you can get a job almost anywhere.
Yes, but the job probably will pay less, at a smaller scale, with fewer perks, and be less interesting. Instead of judging them, perhaps you should support them in condemning their employer for this particular act.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#277wild speculation here:
both the US and China want Dragonfly for different reasons. each thinks it will benefit from Google's presence in China.
China is confident it will control the flow of sensitive information Dragonfly might obtain, and, at the same time, gain valuable insights about how Google operates, paving the way to ultimate replacement of Google in China (and perhaps outside China). plus, in the mean time, Dragonfly gives China some new leverage over Google's current global operations (e.g. calling Taiwan "China", promoting positive news about China to the outside world, etc).
the US government intelligence agencies are confident they will gain valuable information about China's society, government, military, and economy through Dragonfly (somehow). they want any inside presence they can get.
google is lukewarm on Dragonfly but thinks of it as a necessity. google knows it won't be profitable, but also knows that running Dragonfly gives it leverage to keep the US government's regulatory and anti-monopoly enforcement at bay, protecting its leadership in its most valuable market: the US.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#278If this is immoral, it should also be illegal, no? Is anyone for also lobbying to create a law or executive order to that effect? Otherwise, another company will simply step into Googles place, or they could be tempted later to try again. The market is too profitable to do otherwise.
Making everything that is immoral illegal is putting the government in charge of defining morality, it's a bad idea. It leaves little room for disagreement. Little room for nuance. Slows the ability to adapt to new situations or improved understanding. Opens up the process of deciding what is moral to abuse. Etc.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#279I don't see any Distinguished Fellows on that list. Please, distinguish yourselves! Put your clout behind a cause.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#280I morally judge (not condemn) people who work at Google. If you can get a job at Google, you can get a job almost anywhere. There is tons of great work out there for you. People who work at Google are choosing to aid in the suppression of human freedom.
>> People who work at Google are choosing to aid in the suppression of human freedom. The fact that there's a large number of employees who signed this document provides great evidence to contradict this claim. It's kind of a blanket statement - I'm sure a bunch of the folks here on HN work at Google and are trying to do exactly the opposite. Heck, some of the people who signed off on this document could be HN'ers! Y…
>>The fact that there's a large number of employees who signed this document provides great evidence to contradict this claim.
As the saying goes, talk is cheap. So is signing a document.
What is not easy to do is putting your money where your mouth is and acting on your convictions, even if they cause you great discomfort.