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We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

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Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#251

Post by lostgame »

Puer wrote: post #38

I considered working at Google last year after a recruiter reached out to me, but their decision to backtrack on their promise in China changed my mind. I do not morally condemn anyone who works at Google. I have many good friends that are both bright engineers and undeniably good people that work there. I just feel that as someone who's family is Taiwanese, I cannot in good consciousness support the company. I let t…

Good for you, for real. It takes a lot sometimes to stand up against something that a lot of other people would jump for the chance to do.

While I think the average developer has a more negative opinion of Google these days, for years they have been considered one of the best places to work in the world.

I know if I told my parents, for instance, I had done what you did, they probably would've called me an idiot. :P They just know Google is one of the biggest tech companies in the world, they don't see a lot of their especially recent practices as bad.

To say 'no, thank you, I'd rather not as I don't agree with the company's practices' indicates a kind of moral standing I wish more people would confidently have. It shows you're taking a personal stand against what you believe to be corruption, and that's awesome.

Rock on!

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#252

Post by quest88 »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #165
orangecat wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese people may or may not be better off with a censored Google. The rest of the world would be worse off with a Google that has to take orders from the Chinese government.

how specifically is the rest of the world worse off because Google is offering a product in China for local China market? I don't see it.

Hypothetically: Google starts making tons of cash from China. China threatens to cut off the cash-flow if certain results aren't removed from search results outside of China (or something similar).

We'd like to think Google wouldn't do this just for the money, but Dragonfly sets precedent that it would do something just for the money.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#253

Post by lgleason »

While I agree with their stand on this issue, there is a big level of hypocrisy in these statements since Google is well known for suppressing search results and banning people on YouTube etc. based on political ideology. So I'd like to see them stand up against that as well.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#254

Post by commandlinefan »

On the other hand, I recall reading somewhere that people who were forced into making munitions for the German army during WWII got to be really good at manufacturing faulty products that would still pass rigorous inspection. If you're really concerned about the moral implications of a project like that, it might be worth keeping your mouth shut (since somebody's going to do it whether you do it or not) and finding ways to make it plausibly breakable.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#255

Post by PhasmaFelis »

lostgame wrote: post #203
porphyrogene wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

‘Ostensibly’ does not mean what you think it means.

I think, clearly, the larger issue here is the false idea that the USA is a proponent of free speech or human rights. I would certainly never in a million years hope anyone would seriously claim the US to be the greatest country in the world.

I hate many things about what the US is becoming--or has always been--but it does have some of the strongest free-speech rights in the world (though less so in recent decades as other nations catch up), and the world's highest public support for freedom of speech. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/freedom-of-speech-cou...

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#257

Post by quest88 »

ausjke wrote: post #161

I recall 'dont be evil' was the motto, but it's removed a while ago, maybe it's removed because Google realized as far as company&profit goes, it is not different from any other companies.

It's there: https://abc.xyz/investor/other/google-code-of-conduct/. Ctrl+f evil

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#258

Post by rexpop »

chrisco255 wrote: post #231
lostgame wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> a massive proponent of free speech and human rights Yeah, 'human rights', right, so that's why they're so[1] focused[2] on separating families[3], and I guess 'free speech' is what allows the POTUS to be a racist[4], fear-mongering, corrupt[5] liar[6]? Or is 'free speech' the thing that allows denial[7] of climate change[8] even while California burns to the ground? And I guess with 'human rights' that goes along…

[1][2][3] Besides being a revised policy that no longer applies (and yes, policies take time to unwind)...there is no universal human right to emigrate to any country whatsoever. I know a lot of people think so... but also this pales in comparison to the abuses of existing Chinese nationals by China, taking Muslim property [1], placing citizens in internment camps and abusing them, placing them under "deeply invasive…

> there is no universal human right to emigrate to any country

You've really mischaracterized the situation. Check out "No Wall They Can Build" for a closer look, and maybe "An Indigenous People's History of the US" for an explanation of the sentiment that "we didn't cross the border; the border crossed us."

It's not ambiguous, to those of us holding the facts, that the US' encroachment onto Latin American life is a violation of human sovereignty, and dignity—if not explicitly the peculiarly circumscribed "legal rights to emigrate."

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#259

Post by shareometry »

alangibson wrote: post #97
nimbius wrote: post #33

Pretty bold. A lot of people are saying this wont work, but speaking from my own experience, you'd be surprised what companies are amicable to when it comes to business. Im an engine mechanic by trade, and our shops handle bids for cash strapped local governments that outsource their motor pool maintenance. We do things like fire trucks and police cars, but we were working on a new regional idea as a "service center"…

You deserve massive credit for striking a blow against this madness. A great example of how working people have more power than they think if they're willing to risk dollars and cents for matters of right and wrong. I say that fully realizing that not everyone is in the financial position where they can risk a fight with their employer. You can't expect everyone to be Ghandi.

> A great example of how working people have more power than they think if they're willing to risk dollars and cents for matters of right and wrong.

I believe this is key. If more folks at more organizations were brave like this and willing to take the risk, a good chunk of the problems our civilization is facing might be greatly improved.

Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly

#260

Post by mtrovo »

pixl97 wrote: post #111
imglorp wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm, China watches its citizens abroad, closely, and in person sometimes. Their families can be affected, and if they go back home to visit, there can be problems.

>China watches its citizens abroad Now with increased efficiency with Dragonfly technology. Find enemies of the state with our world wide database, US and EU results included. All brought to you by the Alphabet platform.

Think about the synergy that this could unlock, Alphabet comes with the citizen tracking service (not malicious, just for ads, obviously) and plug it to their citizen scoring service.

Further research could be done on integrating this new dataset with Project Maven, think about the opportunities of engaging only with end users with score below a threshold.

Did I see something like this on Black Mirror?

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