I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back • Hacker News Board

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#601

Post by Wowfunhappy » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

I flat out will not buy a phone without a headphone jack, and I cannot see this changing in the forseeable future.

Anything that could be added to a new phone model—a better screen, a faster processor, a better camera, etc—will not be enough to offset the inconvenience of being unable to listen to an audiobook on the subway because I inevitably forgot the damn adapter.

As long as there is one phone with a headphone jack, that is the one I will buy. If the only options are older devices, I will buy the least-old one.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#602

Post by ddingus » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

stouset wrote: post #274

ddingus wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy, get a phone that does not force this stuff.

Ah yes, let me just throw out the hundreds of dollars worth of apps, not to mention the rest of my investment in the ecosystem, because I might have to buy, once, an adapter that costs 1% of the sticker price of the phone and can just be permanently left attached. “Easy”.

Saw that coming a mile away. I won't use an Apple phone. Never would, probably never will. We had this whole lock in discussion in the 90's. Got my first Linux distribution back then. Red Hat 5.2 in the nice box. That investment has paid and paid and paid...

I like some Mac computers a lot. Happy customer. 2012 Mac Book Pro is a sweeet machine! Has all the ports, is plenty fast, sexy. No, I don't run iTunes and friends.

Today, I will run most anything on a computer. I don't mind Android. There are open alternatives all over the place and I use them, moving from platform to platform with relative ease. This all gets easier over time. I can even dumpster dive and get up, running and make some quick cash.

Android is a reasonable, general purpose computer when I want one on the go. Programming, terminal? Check. Content create? Check. Comms of all kinds? Check. Heck, I can through a VM on my Samsung and actually do stuff using the pen. Amazing. If I choose to carry bluetooth keyboard / pad combo, it's happy to show me a pointer and I'm off to the races! And device support? That phone will operate a portable, USB floppy drive, if I need it.

Apple has nothing at all on that environment.

The pads? Throwaways, got one given to me, and it's a great toddler learning tool. Throwaway app buys. I won't ever take the thing seriously, though Mrs loves to stream on it.

As for attached... Nice phone, what's that thing sticking out of it like that... Seriously. Honestly, if it were me stuck with that, I would try and find a case with the jack built in.

And here's the thing! You got that choice forced on you. it's completely unnecessary. Forced migrations happen sometimes. That's OK. This one is unnecessary. There is no meaningful gain, and quite a few downsides to digital only audio delivery.

Finally, yeah. Easy. Only hurts the first time. Rip that bandaid. No joke! Just start. Lots of help out there, and you will benefit over the longer haul.

Once you do, and start navigating away from that lock in, it all improves nicely. I've helped a few people do that. They get there. Soon, they are showing me cool things they found out there in the wild.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#603

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

tjoff wrote: post #423

pookieinc wrote: post #213

We need to take into account _Accessibility_. A large use case that I've found most people seems to miss are individuals who are older and don't have much experience with bluetooth or wireless technology. I'm fine with Apple removing the headphone jack, but they've alienated so many people to find their own path when they don't include the adapter. Anecdotal example: I recently purchased headphones for my 65-year old…

Elderly? I can guarantee that no human being on earth can confidently setup bluetooth on all devices. And that's the issue, these one-off pairings. I had a friend sync with my car bluetooth-stereo, it took a while and from the steering wheel I couldn't be of enough help. But it worked in the end, was quite frustrating though. Then later when I tried to use my phone again it had been lost from the receiver (eventhough…

I have 3 cars with Bluetooth and one of them (which sports a "Sync by Microsoft" label gives me no end of trouble with bluetooth. At one point I gave up and just started using a cord, because I could. I don't drive that car on a daily basis now (It's a Ford Fusion, which otherwise I like.), but when I do, I still have hassles.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#604

Post by ddingus » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

rusk wrote: post #298

ddingus wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, that will remain true digitally too. It is just not hard to tap the signal. I think you are right about the DRM. It will prove to be a waste of time. Audio is too easy. Seriously. Heck, I can make something to just write the stream to a file, and doing that is not hard. Costs less than a CD.

> Heck, I can make something to just write the stream to a file Not so easy if the analog signal only emerges at the earpiece ...

Are you kidding? Go and get that signal. Even if they pot the thing, it would take a day.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#605

Post by Spivak » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

geggam wrote: post #460

Ambroos wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally quite well. Pairing means your devices know to look for eachother, and the bitrate of music streaming over Bluetooth combined with the low range means you'll need some unrealistic congestion before things really start to fail.

unrealistic congestion before things really start to fail. aka public transit...

Everyone on a bus could be using BT and you're still not at enough people for connections to drop.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#606

Post by Spivak » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

AstralStorm wrote: post #433

randomsearch wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple devices are shipped with headphones, which plug into the device. Does that circumvent the accessibility issue?

No, and definitely not the charging issue. The earphones may not fit you at all.

If iPhones shipped with an adapter would it be okay then?

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#607

Post by tjoff » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #600

tjoff wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it only works on one device it is pretty niche and hardly a replacement for the headphone jack...

I mean it's certainly a replacement for the headphone jack on that device which is pretty much the stated goal.

What? It will only work with that device. It won't work in any car or any other circumstance. Also the pods themselves will not work with any non-apple device.

That's an extremely narrow use-case. If that was the only thing people used the headphone jack it wouldn't have been the big travesty that it currently is (and will be for the foreseeable time).

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#608

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 5:05 PM UTC

m_fayer wrote: post #520

pookieinc wrote: post #213

We need to take into account _Accessibility_. A large use case that I've found most people seems to miss are individuals who are older and don't have much experience with bluetooth or wireless technology. I'm fine with Apple removing the headphone jack, but they've alienated so many people to find their own path when they don't include the adapter. Anecdotal example: I recently purchased headphones for my 65-year old…

I think this is a wonderful point. I have elderly parents who depend on the web and mobile apps for a lot of the logistics of their everyday life, so I see the harm that this causes. The constant forced updates (looking at you, Windows) represent arbitrarily moving goal posts, UX-wise. Gratuitous animation, new "social/platform" features, notification-spam, new "design languages", and etc. benefit the elderly even le…

It all started when we abandoned all the advances in UI that were accomplished by IBM and Microsoft (yes, Microsoft) in the 80s and let art majors start designing "UX".

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#609

Post by ConceptJunkie » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

muse900 wrote: post #414

pookieinc wrote: post #213

We need to take into account _Accessibility_. A large use case that I've found most people seems to miss are individuals who are older and don't have much experience with bluetooth or wireless technology. I'm fine with Apple removing the headphone jack, but they've alienated so many people to find their own path when they don't include the adapter. Anecdotal example: I recently purchased headphones for my 65-year old…

Personally I feel like makers saw an opportunity on 1) boost sales on new headphones 2) get rid of the cable hanging around. I can understand and feel your fathers frustration trying to use wireless headphones, on the other side if they never ever get rid of the headphone jack then users are going to end up never getting trained on how to use wireless headphones. Generally with leaps in tech there are leaps in reduce…

New tech needs to be easier and better, or it's not worth having. Forcing people to use bluetooth is not easier, and it's not better, so it' a bad idea. Period.

This is about what's good for Apple (and other companies making a similar change, plus the people who sell the peripherals), and not what's better for the users.

Re: I still miss my headphone jack, and I want it back

#610

Post by Wowfunhappy » Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

hurrrrr wrote: post #561

sacado2 wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, this is very subjective indeed ;) advantages of jacks + wires: reliable, 140 year old industry standard, plug-and-play, universal, cheap, easy to repair, doesn't require battery, doesn't require configuration, doesn't get out of sync, cannot be hacked by a third party. downsides: sometimes all those wires tend to mix and make knots.

downsides: can't move really far when plugged into stationary device, breaks a lot (at least for me it's almost always the plug or cable that breaks), cable picks up random noise upsides: my very old thingamajig with a broken display doesn't support anything else

If they break a lot, you should find better headphones.

My JLab Audio Diego earbuds have lasted for the past two years, and I don't treat them well—they stay in my back pocket, and have experienced several trips through the washing machine.

And if they ever do break, the cost of a replacement is $15. That's barely more than the cost of the headphone jack to lightning adapter that I would need if I upgraded from my 6S.

And they have a flat cord that very rarely gets tangled.