Interesting to see ZERO Indian (Asian Indian) names on the list as of this comment. I've observed from my (limited experience) that Indian Americans and other South Asians are super afraid of losing their employment over guarding the company values.
We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
201–210 of 888 posts
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google is technically superior to baidu in many areas, specially for a developers. It gives better answers in many subjects, not just the censored ones. Besides who are we to decide for the Chinese what is best for them? Sounds a bit condescending and paternalistic. Here here, baidu is enough for you to play with, don't bother with google.
> Besides who are we to decide for the Chinese what is best for them? You do realize that the "people" do not have a voice in China right? It is not a democracy...
The joy of market processes is that those who like Pepsi more and those who like Coke more can both be satisfied at the same time, unlike the Republican voters of San Francisco or the Democrats of Utah.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> a massive proponent of free speech and human rights Yeah, 'human rights', right, so that's why they're so[1] focused[2] on separating families[3], and I guess 'free speech' is what allows the POTUS to be a racist[4], fear-mongering, corrupt[5] liar[6]? Or is 'free speech' the thing that allows denial[7] of climate change[8] even while California burns to the ground? And I guess with 'human rights' that goes along…
‘Ostensibly’ does not mean what you think it means.
I think, clearly, the larger issue here is the false idea that the USA is a proponent of free speech or human rights.
I would certainly never in a million years hope anyone would seriously claim the US to be the greatest country in the world.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those are mostly "Software Engineers" and not a lot of them. Google can kick them out and replace within a month. Unfortunetly I dont think executives will give a slightest heck about this article..
> Google can kick them out and replace within a month. Ah. A believer that software engineers are cogs and can just be “replaced” without training and learning of code bases. Hiring software engineers, bringing them up to speed, and having them contribute to production features, is expensive. Also, you’ll never truly recoup the lost knowledge that goes.
Everyone is replaceable.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#205Without stating an opinion on the topic itself, what does the community think about employees agitating against a company practice like this rather than just leaving and doing something else. Obviously they feel strongly about it and want to make sure it doesn’t happen at all, while the company feels they have a huge untapped revenue source.
leaving and doing something else is a far stronger personal statement than staying and agitating
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
Come to think of it, that's exactly what it could do by refusing to do business with them. If China is left out in the cold for long enough they may move a little. That said, they need to be rewarded for moving or a boycott wouldn't help anything.
At this point you should realize that you're clearly wrong. China is already the second largest economy and their goal is to be a world leader in AI by 2025. China isn't going to be left out of anything.
Well if Baidu sucks so much as people say, maybe they have limits. Or maybe Baidu will catch up.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Pretty bold It's interesting you would label this as such. In what is ostensibly the best country in the world, and a massive proponent of free speech and human rights, you think it's bold to write a letter on the internet to your extraordinarily famous employer? If it's considered bold in the USA involving Google, I shudder to think about anyone else doing this anywhere else. In the year 2018 I would hope it's ver…
>> a massive proponent of free speech and human rights Yeah, 'human rights', right, so that's why they're so[1] focused[2] on separating families[3], and I guess 'free speech' is what allows the POTUS to be a racist[4], fear-mongering, corrupt[5] liar[6]? Or is 'free speech' the thing that allows denial[7] of climate change[8] even while California burns to the ground? And I guess with 'human rights' that goes along…
This is a bit older, but it's a citation:
http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/multimedia/video/2008/wallace/from...
> You said: "There has never been a better society than in the United States in 1958." What do you mean by that?
> FROMM: Well, I mean it, of course, in relative terms. The history of man so far is nothing to brag about, from the standpoint of our ideas--and what I mean is, that in comparison with most other societies, our present-day American society has achieved things which are remarkable: material wealth, greater than for any other nation; a relative freedom from oppression; a relative mobility; a spreading of art, of music, of thought, which is also rather unique. So, I would say, compared with the 19th century, compared with most previous history, this is as good or better a society than any which man has ever made. But that doesn't mean it is such a good one.
Not that I disagree with you, and a lot of things changed for the worse. But still, the US has a lot of tools to fix its problems that other nations never had, and currently don't have. If the US falls for good, it will have an incredible domino effect, I for one don't want to see that happening. Wherever you are, count your blessings -- not to rest on them, but to use them, fiercely.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#208There are not many Chinese names in the signed letter, and I can fully understand. If you are a Chinese H1B or green card holder, and you signed this letter, it is almost certain the Chinese government will contact your family in China.
To me, that's further proof that this letter is spot on. Why should we ever cooperate with a government that has tens of thousands in concentration camps? It is becoming increasingly unethical to do any business in China.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#209Censorship has its uses. I often open these China threads on HN just to add users to my cosmetic filter.
Can you provide more details regarding your cosmetic filter and why posters from a post on China would be good candidates? It’s not clear to me from your post.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#210I considered working at Google last year after a recruiter reached out to me, but their decision to backtrack on their promise in China changed my mind. I do not morally condemn anyone who works at Google. I have many good friends that are both bright engineers and undeniably good people that work there. I just feel that as someone who's family is Taiwanese, I cannot in good consciousness support the company. I let t…
I will not work for Google for the same reason, fwiw.