Ironically a censored search engine makes it easier to compare results from US google to Censored Google. Not sure how that’s a bad thing for anyone.
We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
121–130 of 888 posts
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#122Maybe engaging China is the first step to them opening up their society? Similar to the arguments against the Cuban embargo.
> Maybe engaging China is the first step to them opening up their society? Similar to the arguments against the Cuban embargo.
No. Them "engaging China" will not open up Chinese society, because Google will have to implement the exact same censorship regime that all the other Chinese sites do.
The Chinese government doesn't give a shit about Google's prestige in the West. They'll kick it out the second it gives them a little lip or is non-compliant with their demands. Google has zero power to change anything for the better.
Also, China has discredited the idea that capitalist engagement will cause liberalization. They've shown that an autocratic regime can have its capitalist cake and eat it too.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#123What am I missing? The cost of switching to an alternative search engine like Bing or Duck is next to zero. (Actually, I dropped Google for Duck just 2 months ago.) Brand is the most valuable asset Google has. Is the Chinese search market - and other evil projects - really worth the damage to Google's public image?
It's a billion users potentially, and Google only has a few billion users to begin with. Which is to say, yes, corporate greed suggests the opportunity to grow by 20-30% is absolutely worth sacrificing petty things like conscience and morals.
> It's a billion users potentially
Not even close. See my other comment.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#124Pretty bold. A lot of people are saying this wont work, but speaking from my own experience, you'd be surprised what companies are amicable to when it comes to business. Im an engine mechanic by trade, and our shops handle bids for cash strapped local governments that outsource their motor pool maintenance. We do things like fire trucks and police cars, but we were working on a new regional idea as a "service center"…
Damn, good for y'all for sticking to your values. How did you argue against the inevitable "if we don't take this contract, dude across the street will"?
>How did you argue against the inevitable "if we don't take this contract, dude across the street will"?
Collective action. They can hire 14 new guys, but they won't have any to instruct the new employees in their work.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
doing business with the second largest economy in the world isn't an expendable venture Google could continue to operate profitably without doing business in China, so what makes your statement true?
Businesses are not in the business of simply being profitable, they are usually in the business of increasing revenue and profits beyond the current state.
Nothing about my question suggests Google wouldn't be able to continue to grow by focusing on the 80% of the world that isn't China.
China may be the lowest-hanging fruit of the search and ad market, but surely you're not suggesting Google would shy away from a challenge and only go for the easy win? That doesn't sounds like the Google we all know.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#126Why is having a censored google to easily compare with uncensored google a bad thing?
The danger isn’t simply that censorship exists, it’s that we won’t be able to tell what was censored.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#127OH these fresh young naive minds, who think censorship never happens. Censorship happens ALL THE TIME. The Radio, TV, and Film industries in the USA - they have all been censored, from the very beginning.[1] So it was self-censorship at the behest of the government. What's the difference? Censorship is all around us. Americans self-censor tits and genitals, Europeans self-censor violence. Censorship is everywhere. I…
I find the way you phrase this super-alienating. If anything, it pushes me away from your cause.
1. Comes across as ad-hominem
2. Comes across as emotional/pedantic
3. For example, yes "pornography" is censored on broadcast TV, but many other things aren't. There are obviously degrees of censorship.
4. If your goal is to convince people that things are more censored than they realize you might want to cite some real world examples of political censorship that happened in America that support that point.
5. Your whole comment is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Regardless of whether censorship is common or uncommon in the US, it's still meaningful to take a stance against creating a politically-censored search in China.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#128Uh, isn’t a censored google the best way to do an A/B comparison to find the information China doesn’t want its citizens to know?
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#129Given how trash of a search engine Baidu is, Google would likely achieve market share dominance in China within a couple years - should they move forward with Dragonfly. Complying with demands of the Chinese gov't is the only way they can penetrate the Chinese market. Search engine advertising constitutes close to 85% of Google's revenue. And unlike Project Maven, which was ended due to internal resistance from emplo…
I guess thry could create a new China-venture Google owned company and hire lots of locals in cooperation with other development teams, be they in MTV or other campuses worldwide.
Re: We are Google employees – Google must drop Dragonfly
#130And this is why unionizing works. It’s collective bargaining and it’s not evil.