‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#21

Post by crispyambulance » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:42 PM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #17

AJRF wrote: post #14

"I’ve been thinking about 12 Monkeys a lot lately. It seems, these days, as though the human race has passed a Rubicon and is now on a straight path toward the end of days, or at least the end of the social order as we know it." This feels a little unsubstantiated. Historically speaking, this is the greatest time on earth to be alive. This pessimism is toxic and unrealistic.

Historically speaking, the best time to own Bitcoin was back in January. Things always look great at the top of a bubble. CO2 is higher than in the past several million years and we're still adding more at our usual pace. We've killed 60% of wild vertebrate life since 1970, wiped out a large percentage of the insect population, and we're continuing the practices that caused that as well. None of this can go on foreve…

Well put.

The ironic thing about all numbers-oriented folks in extractive enterprises (regardless of whether they're extracting natural resources, capital, or labor), is their blind spot to the fact that ALL resources are finite. There's no "free-refill" when the big-gulp runs out.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#22

Post by dudul » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:44 PM UTC

rossdavidh wrote: post #20

So, perhaps the author is correct about the film's ending, but that's not the way I interpreted it when I first saw it. Rather, it seemed to me that the scientist from the future was there to insure that the disease did, in fact, spread, even if Bruce Willis' character stopped the original source from getting on the plane. She was either a carrier (a Typhoid Mary of sorts), or else had her own vial. I thought it sugg…

I'm glad I read this article because I never understood the ending that way. I'm probably kind of dumb, but for me, the scientist at the end, on the plane, was just there as part of the normal timeline. I never imagined that she travelled from the future, I thought it was just her character before the epidemic :)

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#23

Post by adetrest » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:46 PM UTC

morganvachon wrote: post #18

Cyph0n wrote: post #9

If you’re interested in a more in-depth look at the 12 Monkeys universe, check out the excellent TV series of the same title.

As the article stated though, they aren't really the same story and don't share continuity. The show is good but it's not an adaptation of the film in any meaningful way.

Exactly, the show was ok but the film is much better. While the show takes place in a similar universe, it's not a continuity.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#24

Post by nabla9 » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:52 PM UTC

dnautics wrote: post #11

sametmax wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've rewatched the movie recently. Humanity is definitly not saved. The whole quest is shown as being nothing a but a futile yet beautiful slice of life. It's espacially underlined with the scene revealing the origin of the voice mail that was supposedly the only clue of the whole shebang for the future scientists.

Isn't humanity saved? The main character's buddy from prison is able to show up to try to save him because greatly improved the tech; he claims that mc is a hero and things are headed to being solved?

Not in the movie.

They definitely can't change the past. They live in block universe where there is only one timeline that happens no matter what. They can only travel into the past and observe and bring some stuff back. mc is a hero because he discovers the real villain and sends message to the future.

The idea is to get sample of the original non-mutated virus and develop a cure in the future so that they can live on the surface again, not to prevent the outbreak.

The movie ends without a cure, but now the future scientists know who the villain is, so they might send other people to intercept the villain when he lands.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#25

Post by gilbetron » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:55 PM UTC

rasz wrote: post #4

cam_l wrote: post #3

If you have not seen it, highly recommend the original film this was based on, La Jette as mentioned in the article. It is a (shortish) masterpiece of French SciFi, all in black and white, shot almost entirely in still scenes, and fully narrated. And i would argue it does follow fairly closely in terms of script and meaning to the remake than the article suggests. It is much more subtle and nuanced. https://en.wikipe…

La Jette reminds me of another under appreciated french movie Le Dernier Combat. Double first for Luc Besson and Jean Reno.

A very disturbing PA movie, an amazing portrayal of the desolation and loneliness in that situation.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#26

Post by jghn » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

dudul wrote: post #22

rossdavidh wrote: post #20

So, perhaps the author is correct about the film's ending, but that's not the way I interpreted it when I first saw it. Rather, it seemed to me that the scientist from the future was there to insure that the disease did, in fact, spread, even if Bruce Willis' character stopped the original source from getting on the plane. She was either a carrier (a Typhoid Mary of sorts), or else had her own vial. I thought it sugg…

I'm glad I read this article because I never understood the ending that way. I'm probably kind of dumb, but for me, the scientist at the end, on the plane, was just there as part of the normal timeline. I never imagined that she travelled from the future, I thought it was just her character before the epidemic :)

This is so interesting as I'd always interpreted "insurance" as her being there to stop the plague. I never considered either of your views nor the one in the article. Now that I see there are so many possible interpretations it really gives some fuel for thought.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#27

Post by culot » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

cam_l wrote: post #3

If you have not seen it, highly recommend the original film this was based on, La Jette as mentioned in the article. It is a (shortish) masterpiece of French SciFi, all in black and white, shot almost entirely in still scenes, and fully narrated. And i would argue it does follow fairly closely in terms of script and meaning to the remake than the article suggests. It is much more subtle and nuanced. https://en.wikipe…

Also peep 'La Puppe', a fun parody of Marker's film:

https://youtu.be/Ln2bt-PRnSY

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#28

Post by Cyph0n » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

morganvachon wrote: post #18

Cyph0n wrote: post #9

If you’re interested in a more in-depth look at the 12 Monkeys universe, check out the excellent TV series of the same title.

As the article stated though, they aren't really the same story and don't share continuity. The show is good but it's not an adaptation of the film in any meaningful way.

I got the impression that the plague arc early in the show was an adaptation of the film — sharing several key characters — but the rest of it was not covered by the film. And if you watch the last season of the series, you get to see an adaptation of the ending of the movie.

Anyways, I think the series was excellent, even on its own.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#29

Post by thanosnose » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:57 PM UTC

tunap wrote: post #7

While I loved 12 Monkeys story & most of TG's body of work, I must posit "Brazil" is more relevant in our non-fiction world than anything else he has done. I hesitate to note the multitude of similarities to our current state of information retrieval & bureaucracies. Zero Theorem seemed to touch the needle but sorta fizzled out mid-way(IMO). Yes, I did not RTFA.

Agreed. I like 12 monkeys better as a movie ( just my style of movie ) but brazil is a far more realistic dyspotian reality. Dystopia by the mundane and the bureaucratic rather than a mad genocidal scientist.

Re: ‘12 Monkeys’: Why Terry Gilliam’s Movie Is Relevant Today

#30

Post by jasonlotito » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 4:01 PM UTC

jghn wrote: post #26

dudul wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad I read this article because I never understood the ending that way. I'm probably kind of dumb, but for me, the scientist at the end, on the plane, was just there as part of the normal timeline. I never imagined that she travelled from the future, I thought it was just her character before the epidemic :)

This is so interesting as I'd always interpreted "insurance" as her being there to stop the plague. I never considered either of your views nor the one in the article. Now that I see there are so many possible interpretations it really gives some fuel for thought.

She can't stop the plague. They can't change that. It's well established. She can't help the plague. It doesn't need help. This is also well established. However, the whole point of sending Cole back was to find out where they could get a clean version of the specimen. The earliest version of it. He succeeded. She's the "insurance" on this whole thing. She can get a sample of the virus so they can create a cure.