Going to university does not broaden the mind • Hacker News Board

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#61

Post by chasing » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:12 AM UTC

mroche wrote: post #46

chasing wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a successful software developer who enjoys his work. I took one single programming class as an undergrad and it sucked. Everything else was literature, philosophy, art, with some science mixed in when I could. I think that decision served me well. It also made me less appealing to people hiring for boring positions and much more appealing to those trying to find smart weirdos who thought differently…

> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.

This is not true for all jobs, but for some jobs it’s much easier to find people who are smart, creative, and passionate and teach them some programming skills than the other way around. Also, I had been teaching myself coding since high school, so I had skills.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#62

Post by yesenadam » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:13 AM UTC

docbrown wrote: post #59

mroche wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.

>However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. That is exactly what they’re looking for, regardless of degree type. Without digging up all the numbers, soft skills in the hiring process are important to a great deal——as long as that person is able to understand the on-the-job training you’re going to give them. You can have person A and B interviewing for a PM position. Person…

uh I think you swapped A and B in the last 2 paras.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#63

Post by ikeboy » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:13 AM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #52

WalterBright wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never run into anyone that did.

I have talked to some libertarians that once you push them a little seem to view slavery as a lesser evil than taxes or environmental regulations.

And some libertarians think that most liberals support slavery by supporting universal healthcare or thinking bakers should have to bake cakes for anyone who wants.

There are a lot of bad framings, and "all conservatives think slavery is ok" is a terrible one

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#64

Post by andrepd » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:13 AM UTC

yosito wrote: post #50

For those interested in broadening their minds, I highly recommend living in a country other than the one you were born in for at least a year. Preferably one with a different language than your first language. It's pretty hard to do that while still hanging on to your narrow mindset. I work remotely and I've had the privilege of being able to live internationally since 2012. But even if you don't work remotely there…

"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." Mark Twain

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#65

Post by selimthegrim » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:14 AM UTC

docbrown wrote: post #59

mroche wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.

>However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. That is exactly what they’re looking for, regardless of degree type. Without digging up all the numbers, soft skills in the hiring process are important to a great deal——as long as that person is able to understand the on-the-job training you’re going to give them. You can have person A and B interviewing for a PM position. Person…

I think you need a switcheroo.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#66

Post by andrepd » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:15 AM UTC

tootahe45 wrote: post #30

ralusek wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is literally the exact opposite. The ratio of leftist to right professors in university is 12:1, even more pronounced among faculty. 1 out of 5 professors in America identify as Marxist.

Marxist, so even more in favor of a ruling class above all.

I know you're just trying to be snarky, but how does that make any sense?

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#67

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:16 AM UTC

docbrown wrote: post #59

mroche wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.

>However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. That is exactly what they’re looking for, regardless of degree type. Without digging up all the numbers, soft skills in the hiring process are important to a great deal——as long as that person is able to understand the on-the-job training you’re going to give them. You can have person A and B interviewing for a PM position. Person…

[deleted]

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#68

Post by happertiger » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:20 AM UTC

yosito wrote: post #50

For those interested in broadening their minds, I highly recommend living in a country other than the one you were born in for at least a year. Preferably one with a different language than your first language. It's pretty hard to do that while still hanging on to your narrow mindset. I work remotely and I've had the privilege of being able to live internationally since 2012. But even if you don't work remotely there…

I really think the US should require all college grads to spend a year overseas in a country that speaks a different language.

I got an education and then I got a real education from travel myself.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#69

Post by ams6110 » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:21 AM UTC

mroche wrote: post #46

chasing wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider myself a successful software developer who enjoys his work. I took one single programming class as an undergrad and it sucked. Everything else was literature, philosophy, art, with some science mixed in when I could. I think that decision served me well. It also made me less appealing to people hiring for boring positions and much more appealing to those trying to find smart weirdos who thought differently…

> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.

A computer science degree really doesn't teach any deep systems knowledge. It's a rather broad survey of operating systems, data structures, algorithms, machine architectures, and programming languages. An undergrad with a CS degree will have a lot to learn about developing software. A CS degree is probably most useful to identify people who are interested enough in computers and software to have stuck with it for 4 years.

Re: Going to university does not broaden the mind

#70

Post by simonsarris » Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 3:22 AM UTC

tmh88j wrote: post #55

simonsarris wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe that's a European thing, because the mindset in the US is that college is a step towards a good career, Really? In the USA, every single time I get into a discussion of the pros and cons of college with friends (or this week family) it starts out "they need to in order to get a good job!" and end with "well... how are they going to become a more well rounded person if they don't go?" It's like clockwork, the…

>it starts out "they need to in order to get a good job!" and end with "well... how are they going to become a more well rounded person if they don't go?" I've honestly never heard anyone say that outside of movies and tv. Maybe I don't come from a posh enough of a background that "becoming well rounded" is an option of equal consideration alongside earning a sustainable income. Sure, they're not always mutually excl…

> I've honestly never heard anyone say that outside of movies and tv.

I think that's part of the problem: Most of the people I'm talking to aren't doing a serious pro/con or staking out their future earnings based on their majors[1], or doing a serious evaluation of whether or not they come from a background that can afford such a posh take. Yet they are still repeating things they've essentially heard on movies and TV, probably to their detriment.

> most people are going to college nowadays for a better career, not to be a renaissance man/woman

I think you may be too optimistic or personally realistic when others are not so. It is much worse: Most people are going because movies/TV/peer pressure tell them they should go. They might say they're doing it for a better career, but they haven't thought that far ahead, not really. If they had, total US student debt would look very different.

[1] Lots of psych and communications. The people I talked to who are doing serious "is this worth it" calculations are doing nursing, or when I was in an engineering school, obviously that.