51–60 of 293 posts
Outside of specific academic focus, nearly everyone I know who has graduated a US university thinks basically the same way.
A cynical view is that US universities teaches you the opinions and manners you need to assume your role in the ruling class.
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Unless your definition of slaves includes all workers under capitalist regimes, this is wrong. Plenty of conservatives don't think slavery is acceptable.
I've never run into anyone that did.
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Wow, that’s the polar opposite of my experience (the “lacking a questioning mind” bit). Maybe you’re in the wrong program or studying a major that doesn’t fit your intellectual needs? (Added later...) I don’t know what you’re studying. And I know philosophy and fine arts programs get shat on sometimes, but one thing those subjects allow (when taught properly) is a very, very deep questioning and thoughtfulness toward…
I was in Engineering, then Applied Math, now in computer science. I don't do well in university style math classes. It takes me a long time working through something to understand what is happening (and why - the why of a thing is one of the first questions I ask when I'm learning something new). It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak…
This was brought home to me when I had to calculate the moment of inertia of some gears in a gearbox. I started with the concept of MoI, and worked it out with a bit of calculus. Another engineer was looking over my work, and asked "what book did you get the formula for MoI out of?" (The shape of the gear was unusual and the book formulae didn't match.)
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Is going to university to "broaden the mind" a common sentiment? Maybe that's a European thing, because the mindset in the US is that college is a step towards a good career, which unfortunately doesn't seem to hold as much weight these days for a growing number of fields.
> Maybe that's a European thing, because the mindset in the US is that college is a step towards a good career, Really? In the USA, every single time I get into a discussion of the pros and cons of college with friends (or this week family) it starts out "they need to in order to get a good job!" and end with "well... how are they going to become a more well rounded person if they don't go?" It's like clockwork, the…
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Is going to university to "broaden the mind" a common sentiment? Maybe that's a European thing, because the mindset in the US is that college is a step towards a good career, which unfortunately doesn't seem to hold as much weight these days for a growing number of fields.
> Maybe that's a European thing, because the mindset in the US is that college is a step towards a good career, Really? In the USA, every single time I get into a discussion of the pros and cons of college with friends (or this week family) it starts out "they need to in order to get a good job!" and end with "well... how are they going to become a more well rounded person if they don't go?" It's like clockwork, the…
I've honestly never heard anyone say that outside of movies and tv. Maybe I don't come from a posh enough of a background that "becoming well rounded" is an option of equal consideration alongside earning a sustainable income. Sure, they're not always mutually exclusive, but let's be real; most people are going to college nowadays for a better career, not to be a renaissance man/woman. I would consider myself to be well positioned now after going to college for engineering and having almost a decade of work experience under my belt, but even the thought of going back to college for a subject I'm passionate about is just a pipe dream. It's expensive, time consuming and I'll probably have no pragmatic use for what I learn without a career change. I barely had enough time while in undergrad to focus on the core material, let alone add on an extra 25% workload to become "well rounded". Sure, I had to take some "intro to _______" courses, but I hardly consider that any sort of in depth knowledge. Is that what people consider a well rounded college experience? If so, I disagree.
Outside of specific academic focus, nearly everyone I know who has graduated a US university thinks basically the same way.
Jeff Schmidt's book "Disciplined Minds" is a great read about this kind of thing -- http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ Here's some discussion from a review of Disciplined Minds by Brian Martin: > Jeff Schmidt provides an answer in his book Disciplined Minds: professionals, including teachers, are selected and molded to have politically and intellectually subordinate attitudes, thereby making their creative energies…
The rationale for American intervention in Vietnam, rightly or wrongly, was based on sophisticated geopolitical concerns. Things that are harder to understand tend to be better understood by more educated people for fairly obvious reasons. US intervention in World War II, to name one counterexample, was justified by a sneak attack on American sailors in Hawaii. Almost any idiot understood why we were fighting then.
Another difference was media influence, with the media firmly in favor of America going to war against Japan and Germany, and firmly opposed to America going to war against North Vietnam. If something is harder to understand, and the overwhelming message from the mass media is one of opposition to the government's position, then most uneducated people will oppose it. It's not that complicated.
Outside of specific academic focus, nearly everyone I know who has graduated a US university thinks basically the same way.
Jeff Schmidt's book "Disciplined Minds" is a great read about this kind of thing -- http://disciplinedminds.tripod.com/ Here's some discussion from a review of Disciplined Minds by Brian Martin: > Jeff Schmidt provides an answer in his book Disciplined Minds: professionals, including teachers, are selected and molded to have politically and intellectually subordinate attitudes, thereby making their creative energies…
That said - just like in Science - the consensus among thoughtfully educated people is probably 'more correct'.
Where things can go wrong ... is when the systematic class is wrong, or where there is a value shift.
Populism is a super example of this: educated business type see the world through economic lenses, and can't for a second understand how 'Brexit' could happen. Most people have an affinity for their culture and a few extra cents on off their pint (and massively more surpluses in the pockets of bankers) is not going to change their mind over it.
Doctors are a funny bunch in this regard: all of them seem to me to be the most intelligent, boring folks! They have to be in a way extremely small-c conservative, very orthodox, there's no experimentation or zaniness with human bodies. The system, and frankly the work (years of total work, oversight, convention) keeps them in the mould. And frankly, they have no reason to try to go outside it either, once inside the mould, it's just too lucrative to leave.
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I've never run into anyone that did.
I have talked to some libertarians that once you push them a little seem to view slavery as a lesser evil than taxes or environmental regulations.
Slavery is completely anti-ethical to libertarianism.
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I consider myself a successful software developer who enjoys his work. I took one single programming class as an undergrad and it sucked. Everything else was literature, philosophy, art, with some science mixed in when I could. I think that decision served me well. It also made me less appealing to people hiring for boring positions and much more appealing to those trying to find smart weirdos who thought differently…
> My first real college programming job was with people who specifically did not hire out of the CS department. Not going to lie, that sounds incredibly counter-intuitive. However, as long as the people have the right skills or mindset I don’t see the issue. There may be a lacking in deeper underlying systems knowledge, though.
That is exactly what they’re looking for, regardless of degree type. Without digging up all the numbers, soft skills in the hiring process are important to a great deal——as long as that person is able to understand the on-the-job training you’re going to give them.
You can have person A and B interviewing for a PM position.
Person A graduated from CS dept, 3.9cGPA, introvert, no experience.
Person B graduated from Literature dept, 3.8cGPA, study abroad, sociable, 5 years work experience with deadlines.
In my opinion, I would take person B over A. I’ll tell you why, though.
Person A has (1) shown they are able to understand different cultures and environments—as the company may be Fortune 500 or non-profit, the workforce can be diverse. (2) they have shown they can take responsibility and (3) be willing to engage with others, coworkers in particular and (4) is willing to get out of their comfort zone by wandering into CS.
Person B will bring me (1) experience but they may not be able to communicate effectively with coworkers, managers, customers, etc. due to their personality. They may know how to fix a problem but (2) they’re personality makes them get confrontational when you say there’s a better way than their way. In the end, the amount of worry I’d have with how they’d work with my other employees is much greater than the time it’ll take me to take an apprentice and teach them how and what I want and need them to learn.
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I was in Engineering, then Applied Math, now in computer science. I don't do well in university style math classes. It takes me a long time working through something to understand what is happening (and why - the why of a thing is one of the first questions I ask when I'm learning something new). It takes me about twice as long to learn a math concept as my peers (or so it seems). But I'm typically the first to speak…
Some universities teach "follow the rules", others teach "here's where the rules come from." I was fortunate enough to have attended one of the latter. This was brought home to me when I had to calculate the moment of inertia of some gears in a gearbox. I started with the concept of MoI, and worked it out with a bit of calculus. Another engineer was looking over my work, and asked "what book did you get the formula f…
Anecdotally, I live in the shadow of a Big Ten university, so I know a lot of academics, and I don't think any of them have expressed a "follow the rules" approach that I was able to discern. Likewise for the people I know who are K-12 teachers, private music teachers, and so forth.